Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by Monroe »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42072469/
NORTHAMPTON, Mass. — A U.S.-led research team may have finally located the lost city of Atlantis, the legendary metropolis believed swamped by a tsunami thousands of years ago, in mud flats in southern Spain.

"This is the power of tsunamis," head researcher Richard Freund told Reuters.

"It is just so hard to understand that it can wipe out 60 miles inland, and that's pretty much what we're talking about," said Freund, a professor at the University of Hartford who led an international team searching for the true site of Atlantis.

To solve the age-old mystery, the team analyzed satellite imagery of a suspected submerged city just north of Cadiz, Spain. There, buried in the vast marshlands of the Dona Ana Park, they believe that they pinpointed the ancient, multiringed dominion known as Atlantis.

The team of archaeologists and geologists in 2009 and 2010 used a combination of deep-ground radar, digital mapping and underwater technology to survey the site.

Freund's discovery in central Spain of a strange series of "memorial cities," built in Atlantis' image by its refugees after the city's likely destruction by a tsunami, gave researchers added proof and confidence, he said.

Atlantean residents who did not die in the tsunami fled inland and built new cities there, he added.

The team's conclusions are detailed in "Finding Atlantis," a National Geographic Channel special.

While it is hard to know with certainty that the site in Spain is Atlantis, Freund said the "twist" of finding the memorial cities makes him confident Atlantis was buried in the mud flats.

"We found something that no one else has ever seen before, which gives it a layer of credibility, especially for archaeology, that makes a lot more sense," Freund said.

Greek philosopher Plato wrote about Atlantis 2,600 years ago, describing it as "an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Hercules," as the Straits of Gibraltar were known in antiquity.

Using Plato's detailed account of Atlantis as a map, searches have focused on the Mediterranean and Atlantic as the best possible sites for the city. Researchers have previously proposed that Atlantis was located on the Greek island of Santorini , the Italian island of Sardinia or on Cyprus .

Tsunamis in the region have been documented for centuries, Freund says. One of the largest was a reported 10-story tidal wave that slammed Lisbon in November 1755.

Debate about whether Atlantis truly existed has lasted for thousands of years. Plato's "dialogues" from around 360 B.C. are the only known historical sources of information about the iconic city. Plato said the island he called Atlantis "in a single day and night ... disappeared into the depths of the sea."

Experts plan further excavations at the site where they believe Atlantis is located and at the mysterious "cities" in central Spain 150 miles away to more closely study geological formations and to date artifacts.

This report includes information from Reuters and msnbc.com. "Finding Atlantis," a documentary about the search for the city's ruins, will air on Tuesday on the National Geographic Channel.

This is really really cool I think. Now, I've always thought there was a strong chance for the existence of Atlantis. I'd say like 26%. I never put any faith in the Aliens or ray guns or things like that but the idea of a civilization older than Egypt I have long thought was plausible. Humans have the same intelligence we've had for tens of thousands of years so why should there not be civilizations in the distant past that we do not know about? An "advanced civilization" could just have pottery and nice roads, maybe a law system it does not need to have space ships and alien contact.

But, if it is Atlantis that would be bad ass as I realized that the Aztecs worshiped Cortez because of a prophecy that said Quetzalcoatl would arrive on the very same day that the Spanish arrived. And to Atlantis 'scholars' Quetzalcoatl was from an Atlantean race of fair skinned people who taught science and math to the Olmecs. The main theory of Atlantis was that after its destruction they either spread out and taught their megolithic architecture around the world or maybe those were colonies (I put even less faith in this than I do in Atlantis in general but I think there's a minor chance on it). So even if the two aren't related that's some wicked cool coincidences-- especially since Cortez arrived to the very day that the Atlanteans were suppose to return according to the prophecy.

I'm naturally pretty excited. And even if this isn't Atlantis its an ancient civilization in an area where nothing else is in early history. Spain didn't have any advanced civilizations as far as we know so this is wicked cool.

Anyway, really cool stuff. I hope it is the lost city of Atlantis because if so it would be wicked cool.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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Image Fascinating...
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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Monroe wrote:but the idea of a civilization older than Egypt I have long thought was plausible.
What? There are lots of civilizations older than Egypt, and not a few that were contemporary with Egypt but in certain ways more advanced. We don't need Atlantis for that.
Monroe wrote:But, if it is Atlantis that would be bad ass as I realized that the Aztecs worshiped Cortez because of a prophecy that said Quetzalcoatl would arrive on the very same day that the Spanish arrived. And to Atlantis 'scholars' Quetzalcoatl was from an Atlantean race of fair skinned people who taught science and math to the Olmecs.
Quetzalcoatl was also the anthropomorphic deification of a long-tailed green bird. To say definitively that Quetzalcoatl was from an Atlantean race is the same as me saying that Jesus was a Jovian, simply because I want to say that advanced life existed on Jupiter. :roll:

We don't need this city to believe in a Platonic Atlantis. The contemporary eruption of Santorini created tsunamis powerful enough to deposit non-native pumice on Crete, and Linear B records indicate a swamped atoll or small island nearby; couple that with proven poetic inaccuracy of Mediterranean geography among post-Homeric "historians" (especially considering westward locations) and this new find need not be posited as Atlantis, even if we want to believe the Platonic report.

Further, this article provides absolutely no archaeological information. Sunken cities are found regularly. Submerged Roman and pre-Roman townships have been found along the coast of Israel, and Ptolemaic Egypt has yielded a number of temple complexes and religious cities underwater west of the Nile Delta (coincidentally, nearing where Cleopatra's tomb is suspected to be.) There is no comparative dating, or even anthropological description, given in that article - that city could very easily (read: "probably") be a sunken Roman or Gallic city, or even a much later Frankish settlement.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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* BTW... * Spain did have an advanced pre-Roman culture... who do you think the Romans had to fight when they got there, or who introduced the Romans to the design which led to the adoption of the gladius hispaniensis instead of the early xiphos-type? Yes, the Gallic civilizations were neolithic, but that doesn't mean that they weren't civilized or capable of city-building; in fact they were, and the article provides no evidence or even assertion that the ruins found were more than neolithic.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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While I'm to lazy at the moment to stomp on the stupidity of this in the grand fashion to which Mikey has... I have to agree that this is little more then someone pointing to a map and saying "I think I might have possibly maybe kinda found something".
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

What Deep and Mikey said. This is in no way proof of Atlantis. Neat, but not proof of precursor civilization.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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I'm not even talking about proof. Without some description of comparative archaeology, this isn't even a suggestion of some unknown civilization.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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Mikey wrote:I'm not even talking about proof. Without some description of comparative archaeology, this isn't even a suggestion of some unknown civilization.
I disagree, there is no way we can or can't say for sure that this maybe is a possible absolute! :poke:
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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Mikey wrote:What? There are lots of civilizations older than Egypt, and not a few that were contemporary with Egypt but in certain ways more advanced. We don't need Atlantis for that.
I know, I meant that whole region. I should have said Summeria.
Monroe wrote:Quetzalcoatl was also the anthropomorphic deification of a long-tailed green bird. To say definitively that Quetzalcoatl was from an Atlantean race is the same as me saying that Jesus was a Jovian, simply because I want to say that advanced life existed on Jupiter. :roll:
I said I thought it was a cool coincidence not that it was fact.
We don't need this city to believe in a Platonic Atlantis. The contemporary eruption of Santorini created tsunamis powerful enough to deposit non-native pumice on Crete, and Linear B records indicate a swamped atoll or small island nearby; couple that with proven poetic inaccuracy of Mediterranean geography among post-Homeric "historians" (especially considering westward locations) and this new find need not be posited as Atlantis, even if we want to believe the Platonic report.
Yeah, I would say Thera and the decline of Crete are more likely candidates.
that city could very easily (read: "probably") be a sunken Roman or Gallic city, or even a much later Frankish settlement.
Yeah I'm trying to find a better article. With the news focused on Japan, the protests, middle east, gun control, and the budget crisis its nearly impossible to find any information :-/
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by stitch626 »

Unfortunately its just like those looking for Earhart. Never is any proper scientific testing done, and everything gets contaminated because they aren't actual scientist but just a bunch of semi-educated folks.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

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stitch626 wrote:Unfortunately its just like those looking for Earhart. Never is any proper scientific testing done, and everything gets contaminated because they aren't actual scientist but just a bunch of semi-educated folks.
I heard they found her skeleton a couple of months ago. And they did find Troy...

Guys don't get me wrong in that I think all this stuff is 100% true. I rate my knowledge in probabilities and I think there's a probability that this is true. A small one yes, but enough of one that I find this interesting.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by Captain Picard's Hair »

There are very good known examples for what might have inspired the story of Atlantis, though to conclusively prove that one of them was definitely the source might never happen. Besides, I don't see the story of Atlantis as a real archaeological mystery so much as a romantic legend. Even letting aside the more "magical" embellishments to the story there's no way to verify the story (unless a time machine can be built) and there are reasons to doubt the historical accuracy of some parts of it. It's the idea of an "advanced" race being wiped away at the whim of nature that seems to strike some chord in us; thus I'd say this is another one of those things like the hunt for the Holy Grail, the Fountain of Youth or Shangri-La, in which the factual accuracy (even as many of these are dubious historical ideas) is secondary to what we "see" in the stories.
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Captain Picard's Hair wrote:(unless a time machine can be built)
No problem. I'm pretty sure my truck gets up to 88 miles per hour.

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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by Mikey »

Monroe wrote:I know, I meant that whole region. I should have said Summeria.
Not just Sumeria - Nubia and Libya were already extant and able to provide mercenaries during the Old Kingdom; Harrapa and Jericho may be up to 5000 years (or more) older than Old Kingdom Egypt; neolithic European civilizations predate Egypt; there are the Anatolian cultures like the Hittites (the historical ones, not the Biblical ones,) Scythians, et. al.; the Canaanite cultures which may have later composed a portion of the infamous Sea Peoples; etc.
Monroe wrote:I heard they found her skeleton a couple of months ago.
A couple of bones and a campsite with female personal effects. Completely debunked as Earhart a little while ago.
Monroe wrote:And they did find Troy...
Schliemann found Troy with a basis as much in archaeology as in Homer. We already knew that there were Asia Minor civilizations contemporary with - and trading and warring with - Mycenaean Greece. In addition, Homeric references included known Asia Minor poleis, from which it was less a leap of faith to deduce Troy's existence much less its locality.
Deepcrush wrote:
Mikey wrote:I'm not even talking about proof. Without some description of comparative archaeology, this isn't even a suggestion of some unknown civilization.
I disagree, there is no way we can or can't say for sure that this maybe is a possible absolute! :poke:
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Re: Atlantis Found!!! (maybe)

Post by Monroe »

Mikey wrote:
Not just Sumeria - Nubia and Libya were already extant and able to provide mercenaries during the Old Kingdom; Harrapa and Jericho may be up to 5000 years (or more) older than Old Kingdom Egypt; neolithic European civilizations predate Egypt; there are the Anatolian cultures like the Hittites (the historical ones, not the Biblical ones,) Scythians, et. al.; the Canaanite cultures which may have later composed a portion of the infamous Sea Peoples; etc.
What's your point? I mean you're making a huge deal out of it and for what reason? You know I know there are many older civilizations. What is your point? You're just nitpicking to be a tool. I'm not going to list every single one because you know what I am talking about. If the ruins are old enough that would mean a brand new alpha civilization that we don't know about. You're focusing on the wrong part of the topic.

A couple of bones and a campsite with female personal effects. Completely debunked as Earhart a little while ago.
I thought they found her plane too? Ah well that's a shame. I didn't really follow that story (cause I never saw the reason for the weird obsession with her and don't really care).

Schliemann found Troy with a basis as much in archaeology as in Homer. We already knew that there were Asia Minor civilizations contemporary with - and trading and warring with - Mycenaean Greece. In addition, Homeric references included known Asia Minor poleis, from which it was less a leap of faith to deduce Troy's existence much less its locality.
The ruins they've found match Plato's description incredibly well.


Cadiz:
Access to Atlantic and Islands beyond: check
Destroyed in a single day and night: check
Ringed city: check
Beyond the Pillars of Hercules: check
Island / Continent: mostly fail (to the Egyptians the Iberian peninsula might count)
Domination of most of Europe and Africa: unknown (But situated well to do so).
War with Athens: unknown
Land area: check

Thera:
Access to Atlantic islands and beyond: kinda
Destroyed in a single day and night: check (But not swallowed by sea)
Ringed City: unknown
Beyond Pillars of Hercules: fail
Island / Continent: check
Domination of most of Europe and Africa: unknown (But again situated well)
War with Athens: unknown but likely.
Land area: fail

Crete:
Access to Atlantic Islands and Beyond: kinda
Destroyed in a single day and night: kinda (destruction of Thera)
Ringed City: fail
Beyond Pillars of Hercules: fail
Island / Continent: check
Domination of most of Europe and Africa: unknown (But situation works as the successors dominated the trade routes of that area)
War with Athens: unknown but likely
Land area: kinda fail.



I think this new city is the best candidate so far. Just need the dating to come back. If the dating comes back and it dates back prior to 5,000 BCE or prior I would say its a match of the story and we would have the birth place of the myth.


I don't see why you guys are all up in arms about it. Its as if you'd be mad cause I say we know were the Cyclops mythology came from.
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Its like no wonder this forum barely grows in members. You're all dying to flame anyone you can. I even said (maybe) in the title of the thread.
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