France's constitutional court has approved the law set to ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public.
It approved it almost in its entirety, making one small change: the law will not apply to public places of worship where it may violate religious freedom.
The proposed measure had already been passed by parliament. It is due to come into force next spring.
The ban has strong public support, but critics point out that only a handful of French Muslims wear the full veil.
The law makes it illegal to wear garments such as the niqab or burka, which incorporate a full-face veil, anywhere in public.
Under the ban, persons found wearing a full veil in public will face a fine of 150 euros (£130) and/or a citizenship course.
Those found to force women to wear a full veil will face a 30,000-euro fine and a one-year jail term.
A last challenge is possible at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, where decisions are binding.
Under the law, there is a six-month period of "education" to explain to women already wearing a face veil that they face arrest and a fine if they continue to do so in public spaces.
There are estimated to be only about 2,000 women wearing the full veil in France.
President Nicolas Sarkozy has backed the ban as part of a wider debate on French identity, but opponents say the government is pandering to far-right voters.
Spain and Belgium are debating similar legislation.
To be honest, I'm not really sure where I stand on this. It just seems to be going that little too far for me. Were it based on certain specific reasons I could perhaps support it. I know some countries have banned concealing the face in any way in public regardless of reason, and prohibiting the use of the burqa and niqab for that reason is something I could actually support (since the restriction applies to everyone equally). The way the Frence are going about it, though.....I'm not sure I can support it.
What do you guys think?
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#1 - this is fairly old news, isn't it? I think France instituted, or at least legislated, the ban over a month ago.
#2 - I believe that this was passed under the PR aegis of the Christian/Muslim street violence which occurs in France. Not too convincing in my book, considering that the ban will generally only affect conservative female Muslims - as in, people who generally aren't involved in France's anti-Muslim rioting.
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Its very very difficult. I don't really sit on either side of the fence because I can sort of see both parts of an argument.
Many people find the Burqa in particular threatening. While I personally don't get it (it's wearing a giant thin carpet, how is that threatening) I can sort of see some people thinking you can conceal items within it (A school friend sort of supports this as she gets away with wearing earphones underneath her Hijab. Ahem moving on) but it is incredibly unlikely that a conservative muslim female will be carrying something like a machete or something unsafe beneath a Burqa or Niqab. If they banned all face covering items, then fine I can understand it. Security or identification reasons, I can understand all those. Bottom line, while I don't particularly subscribe to them, I can sort of understand if not justify.
However.
A very large number of Muslim females that would likely wear the Burqa are often lacking in self confidence whatsoever. I am not going to comment on the reason, draw your own conclusions on the level of equality that a severely conservative family would give a Burqa wearing Muslim, however I know a fair few women who would simply melt down in despair because they only feel safe wearing a Burqa. I've had a somewhat stunted conversation with earlier mentioned friend's mother (sexual preference etc were not mentioned rest assured...plus I had to learn some complicated bengali words. that was fun) and a lot of women feel naked without it. I find it hard to justify the prevention of the Burqa when its the only way a lot of their wearers feel comfortable of even safe.
What I would like to say though is that the Islamic law (Sharia) that required married women to cover up their entire body in a black shroud and dress, in the freaking desert no less, must have been created by insecure, little-dicked, impotent, and probably massively ugly sissies who couldn't control nor satisfy their wives without instituting this pathetic law and then hiding their limpness behind the veil of religion.
"Bible, Wrath of Khan, what's the difference?"
Stan - South Park
It does depend on where you stand. Most islamic women, especially those of arabic descent themselves, see it as them being protected from sinful men. There was a program with an American cook going to Saudi Arabia with a Arabian American muslim woman and they were in their equivalent of mcdonalds or something like that. There was a separate part for men, and a separate part for families, women or children. However, she said she saw herself as the lucky one as the untied males had to go to that separate part so the families and women didnt have to suffer their harassment.
While I don't agree, it isn't my place to judge their beliefs whether its in their religious text or its a practical implication. Their perception is much much different from ours.
Covering your entire body in loose-fitting fabric in the desert is common sense, unless you fancy being blinded choked and fried. Besides which, Sharia has fuck-all to do with either the burqa or niqab - they're cultural, not religious, requirements.
Apart from that I heartily agree.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Besides, the Qu'ran only states that its religiously necessary to cover the skin head to toe but leaves the face, hands and toes bare. No specification on colour, its not a requirement to be back to cover the face. Many progressive muslim women don't cover their arms any longer, especially in states such as Egypt. Niqab/Burqa etc. are personal choices, generally more extreme ones.
Reliant121 wrote:While I don't agree, it isn't my place to judge their beliefs whether its in their religious text or its a practical implication. Their perception is much much different from ours.
Would you consider it your place to judge the Iranian ayatollahs' frequently demonstrated belief that homosexuality should warrant the death penality?
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
To judge them? Not particularly. I disagree entirely (duh) with them but if they believe it thats their choice. It becomes a problem when they perform it. Being the Ayatollah's the of course do which is why I find them wrong. Not that they happen to hold what I consider misguided beliefs.
However, if I were living in Saudi Arabia and sentenced to death due to sexual preference then I would probably consider that a human rights violation. Thing is, muslim women I know don't see the requirement to follow Hijab practices as a human rights violation.
Reliant121 wrote:Thing is, muslim women I know don't see the requirement to follow Hijab practices as a human rights violation.
If they want to wear the blasted things, that's their decision. Far, far too often, however, they're no more voluntary than a star of David or a pink triangle.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
That, unfortunately, is often the fault of the cultural elements of their society. The whole, downtrodden women superior man thing, not a religious thing. In that sense, I see them as how we were some 300-500 years ago with women being little more than items to have children, cook and maybe to crochet if you were really lucky.
Reliant121 wrote:That, unfortunately, is often the fault of the cultural elements of their society. The whole, downtrodden women superior man thing, not a religious thing.
Exactly my point - it's got nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with making a point about ownership.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Reliant121 wrote:That, unfortunately, is often the fault of the cultural elements of their society. The whole, downtrodden women superior man thing, not a religious thing.
Exactly my point - it's got nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with making a point about ownership.
That's about it, right there.
"Bible, Wrath of Khan, what's the difference?"
Stan - South Park
The problem is that this law isn't going to be liberating anyone, just now the women who previously could leave their homes can't because they're not allowed to dress how they please. Be it their own choice or their husbands enforcing it on them either way France has successfully made things worse.
