Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Tsukiyumi »

PHOENIX (Reuters) - Hit men dressed in fake police tactical gear burst into a home in Phoenix, rake it with gunfire and execute a man.

Armed kidnappers snatch victims from cars and even a local shopping mall across the Phoenix valley for ransom, turning the sun-baked city into the "kidnap capital" of the United States.

Violence of this kind is common in Mexico where drug cartel abductions and executions are a daily feature of a raging drug war that claimed 6,000 lives south of the border last year.

But U.S. authorities now fear that violent crime is beginning to bleed over the porous Mexico border and take hold here.

"The fight in Mexico is about domination of the smuggling corridors and those corridors don't stop at the border," Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said.

Execution style murders, violent home invasions, and a spiraling kidnap rate in Phoenix -- where police reported an average of one abduction a day last year linked to Mexican crime -- are not the only examples along the border.

In southern California, police have investigated cases of Americans abducted by armed groups tied to the Tijuana drug trade. One involved a businesswoman and her teenage daughter snatched in San Diego last year and held to ransom south of the border.

In south Texas, a live hand grenade traced back to a Mexican cartel stash was tossed onto the pool table of a bar frequented by off-duty police officers in January. The pin was left in it and the assailant fled.

COPING WITH SPILLOVER

Mexican traffickers have always been violent, but the death toll has soared since President Felipe Calderon took office in late 2006 and sent tens of thousands of troops to fight the country's powerful cocaine cartels.

Soldiers have fought pitched battles with drug gangs in several Mexican towns and overwhelmed police officers have fled municipal forces the length of the border. In many cases, police officers have been paid off by the drug gangs or even joined them.

In a sign of an increasingly desperate struggle to rein in the violence, Calderon this week ordered 5,000 more troops and federal police to Ciudad Juarez, just across the border from El Paso, Texas.

The cartels have killed 250 people in Ciudad Juarez in the past month, forced the police chief to resign, and shut down the airport with bomb threats.

The struggle by outgunned Mexican authorities to contain the violence was highlighted for Arizona state police last November, when Mexican police officers pinned down in a raging gun battle in Nogales, Sonora, reached out to them with an urgent request for more bullets.

While U.S. authorities stress they have not seen anything like the kind of street battles and horrific beheadings that are now common in Mexico, they are already taking action to curb was has become known as "overspill".

Texas Gov. Rick Perry says he wants 1,000 troops to guard the border. The state's Attorney General Greg Abbott is backing legislation to crack down on money laundering and human, drug and weapons trafficking through the state by the warring Gulf and Sinaloa cartels.

Lawmakers in Arizona heard testimony on border violence last week from police and prosecutors, who are seeking more robust measures to seize smugglers' assets, as well as cracking down harder on gunrunning to Mexico.

PLANNING FOR THE WORST

Washington has stepped up support for Calderon, pledging to give Mexico helicopters, surveillance aircraft, inspection equipment and police training under a $1.4 billion plan to beat the cartels in Mexico and Central America.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano -- a former Arizona governor -- told a Congressional hearing last week she was focused on curbing the southbound traffic in guns that are being used to arm the violent cartels.

In a measure of that commitment, a Phoenix gun dealer goes on trial next week on charges he sold hundreds of weapons, including AK-47 assault rifles, to smugglers knowing they would send them to a powerful cartel in Sinaloa state on Mexico's Pacific coast.

As the spiraling drug violence shakes Mexican cities and towns along the U.S. border, U.S. Senate lawmakers announced last week they would hold two hearings to assess the ability of U.S. security forces to deal with the rise in crime on the U.S. side.

Senator Joseph Lieberman, chairman of the homeland security governmental affairs committee, said the panel would assess border security programs already in place and review whether federal, state and local authorities are ready to respond to any serious spillover of the Mexican drugs war.

For the sheriff of Hidalgo County, in south Texas, where the live grenade was thrown into a bar in Pharr, possibly by street gang members armed by a Mexican cartel, that renewed attention to the war on his doorstep can only be welcome.

"It's the first time we've had a hand grenade attack," Guadalupe Trevino told Reuters. "I believe there's more out there that we need to find."
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I think it's time to set up a Neutral Zone between us and Mexico. My idea of machine gun emplacements at regular intervals along the border doesn't seem as far-fetched or excessive as it did a year ago.

Of course, our plan is to hand over billions of dollars to their corrupt, ineffectual government instead. :bangwall:
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Sionnach Glic »

Not surprising. The Mexican government barely controls its own country any more. Last I heard, they had armed soldiers patroling the capital for exactly this reason. Given that the US is a major market for Mexican drug gangs, it's only natural that they'd move up north. When their competitors move north as well, it's only natural that the same violence is going to spring up.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Tsukiyumi »

My problem is their ability to move north at all. A fuckton of land mines might dissuade them.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Tsukiyumi wrote:My problem is their ability to move north at all. A fuckton of land mines might dissuade them.
No, it won't. They'll just round up a tonne of poor folks and march them through the field, Soviet Penal Legion style or herd a bunch of cows through.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Cpl Kendall wrote:
Tsukiyumi wrote:My problem is their ability to move north at all. A fuckton of land mines might dissuade them.
No, it won't. They'll just round up a tonne of poor folks and march them through the field, Soviet Penal Legion style or herd a bunch of cows through.
Good point. Maybe we can just get the Mexican police to pop smoke at known cartel strongholds, and carpet bomb the worthless piles of crap.

Handing money over to their government isn't going to change anything. Diplomacy isn't going to change anything. I would suggest that we offer to frag these bastards for them, but our troops seem to be otherwise occupied at the moment.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Captain Seafort »

Or they'll start going round the side by sea into Texas or California, or start digging tunnels into San Diego. That's assuming that the US can even mine the entire border - it's the best part of 2,000 miles long.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Tsukiyumi wrote:
Good point. Maybe we can just get the Mexican police to pop smoke at known cartel strongholds, and carpet bomb the worthless piles of crap.

Handing money over to their government isn't going to change anything. Diplomacy isn't going to change anything. I would suggest that we offer to frag these bastards for them, but our troops seem to be otherwise occupied at the moment.
I doubt any of that will do anything but make them smarter. There's a demand for their product and frankly a big part of this problem is that the stuff is illegal, legalise it and you cut the legs out from under them. Mexico's larger problems won't be solved without a massive infusion of cash and education though; it's a third world country with all that it entails.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Cpl Kendall wrote:...There's a demand for their product and frankly a big part of this problem is that the stuff is illegal, legalise it and you cut the legs out from under them.
I agree that half of the issue is the profits to be had from drug-running, but I certainly don't think legalizing cocaine or heroin is a good solution.
Cpl Kendall wrote:Mexico's larger problems won't be solved without a massive infusion of cash and education though; it's a third world country with all that it entails.
Also agreed. Unfortunate that they have nothing much of value to offer in trade for said cash. I suppose if they gave us exclusive rights to mine their substantial mineral resources, it might be worth it.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Tsukiyumi wrote:Unfortunate that they have nothing much of value to offer in trade for said cash.
Other than the benefits of not having a severely fucked-up country on your southern border.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Captain Picard's Hair »

OT1: I've once heard it said that the best job you could possibly have is that of crime boss (unless you get caught). If that's true here, than in Mexico (or more generally Latin America)...

OT2: I admit to a negative association with Latin(o/a) people as essentially poor bums. Demographically it may have a large degree of truth but it's the sterotyping in itself and any associated emotion that makes me uneasy. This goes for even legal immigrants, of which there are plenty enough of in NY (of course, there's plenty enough of every group/thing here), but many Latin American countries in general do have a marked, er, 'tendency for lawlessness.'

Now, as to the Mexican problem, when it comes to drugs it is a matter of security and public welfare as much as a political immigration issue. For example, there's been a crackdown on meth labs in America and the pseudoepherrine cold medicine its made from is now under strict regulation here. This has been successful in reducing domestic production of meth, but the Mexican drug cartels have happily stepped in to replace the production of meth. Yes, giving money to a corrupt a/o ineffectual government doesn't do much good generally, and border security is in order.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Tsukiyumi wrote:Unfortunate that they have nothing much of value to offer in trade for said cash.
Other than the benefits of not having a severely f***ed-up country on your southern border.
When someone says, "Give us money, or we'll hurt you", that's generally considered robbery.

I don't think we should just hand over a bunch of money because some people have found a new way to extort us. I'd rather spend it on defenses on our side of the border. People want to come north, great. Get a passport or visa, and come through one of the many established legal, secure border crossings. Try to sneak across, get shot in the face.

CPH - I have no problem with legal immigrants trying to come here to make a living.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

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Tsukiyumi wrote:
I agree that half of the issue is the profits to be had from drug-running, but I certainly don't think legalizing cocaine or heroin is a good solution.
Perhaps not but the current situation is a joke and isn't helping anything. It's not like the solution has to be "ban" or "legalise" either.

Also agreed. Unfortunate that they have nothing much of value to offer in trade for said cash. I suppose if they gave us exclusive rights to mine their substantial mineral resources, it might be worth it.
Well the US talks a big game about improving conditions for third-world countries and spreading freedom. What better place to demonstrate that then next door? It evem serves US interests better then the Iraq debacle,it would have direct benefits on the US.
When someone says, "Give us money, or we'll hurt you", that's generally considered robbery.

I don't think we should just hand over a bunch of money because some people have found a new way to extort us. I'd rather spend it on defenses on our side of the border. People want to come north, great. Get a passport or visa, and come through one of the many established legal, secure border crossings. Try to sneak across, get shot in the face.

CPH - I have no problem with legal immigrants trying to come here to make a living.
Pride can only take a nation so far and shooting border hoppers or mining it is just going to buy the nation even more international condemnation. Face it, your nation has something they want and they are willing to risk death already to get it. If they are willing to risk starvation, summary execution or slavery by the Coyotes now, they won't be bothered by that GPMG you put up on the wall.

And honestly, if it was anyone of us, we'd be doing the exact same thing. If the USA suddenly turned into a third-world shithole but Canada didn't, I bet everyone here would be willing to hop the border in the face of whatever is waiting.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Captain Picard's Hair »

I have no problem with it; hell, most of us here in the States came from such a background at some point in their ancestry. Just like these other immigrant groups did, Latin-American immigrants will eventually climb the social ladder too. It's just an association that comes from seeing so many people of Latin origin in this state. As much as I respect the intellectual side of it, feelings are feelings. :?

Yeah, as a third-world country, Mexico needs help. At the same time, it's unfortunate that their government may not be entirely trustworthy to spend money wisely. There's also been a long history of investment in the third world with disappointing results. In the end, these people need to be educated, and must begin to develop whatever national resources they own that can hold up a functional economy so that they can eventually stand on their own. Finding the right formula to achieve this has been an elusive problem. :?
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Aaron »

Captain Picard's Hair wrote:I have no problem with it; hell, most of us here in the States came from such a background at some point in their ancestry. Just like these other immigrant groups did, Latin-American immigrants will eventually climb the social ladder too. It's just an association that comes from seeing so many people of Latin origin in this state. As much as I respect the intellectual side of it, feelings are feelings. :?

Yeah, as a third-world country, Mexico needs help. At the same time, it's unfortunate that their government may not be entirely trustworthy to spend money wisely. There's also been a long history of investment in the third world with disappointing results. In the end, these people need to be educated, and must begin to develop whatever national resources they own that can hold up a functional economy so that they can eventually stand on their own. Finding the right formula to achieve this has been an elusive problem. :?
Yeah, you can't just hand them money. We've already seen how well that works in Africa, Iraq and Afghanistan. It should at the least be done under supervision (preferably by international advisors, from the West) who have the clout to pull funding at any time if the Mexican's don't play ball.
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Re: Mexican Drug Wars Now A US Problem

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Tsukiyumi wrote:I agree that half of the issue is the profits to be had from drug-running, but I certainly don't think legalizing cocaine or heroin is a good solution.
Perhaps not but the current situation is a joke and isn't helping anything. It's not like the solution has to be "ban" or "legalise" either.
What is the middle ground there, exactly? :?

I can think of a way to resolve at least part of the problem, and it involves the word "legalize".
Cpl Kendall wrote:
Also agreed. Unfortunate that they have nothing much of value to offer in trade for said cash. I suppose if they gave us exclusive rights to mine their substantial mineral resources, it might be worth it.
Well the US talks a big game about improving conditions for third-world countries and spreading freedom. What better place to demonstrate that then next door? It evem serves US interests better then the Iraq debacle,it would have direct benefits on the US.
What would be really great is if we improved conditions for people here, maybe help out some of the millions of homeless and impoverished people here before we start throwing money at other countries.
Cpl Kendall wrote:
When someone says, "Give us money, or we'll hurt you", that's generally considered robbery.

I don't think we should just hand over a bunch of money because some people have found a new way to extort us. I'd rather spend it on defenses on our side of the border. People want to come north, great. Get a passport or visa, and come through one of the many established legal, secure border crossings. Try to sneak across, get shot in the face.

CPH - I have no problem with legal immigrants trying to come here to make a living.
Pride can only take a nation so far and shooting border hoppers or mining it is just going to buy the nation even more international condemnation.


Well, everyone loves the guy who's handing out free money, right? Maybe the rest of the world will like us again if we just send them checks.
Cpl Kendall wrote:Face it, your nation has something they want and they are willing to risk death already to get it. If they are willing to risk starvation, summary execution or slavery by the Coyotes now, they won't be bothered by that GPMG you put up on the wall.

And honestly, if it was anyone of us, we'd be doing the exact same thing. If the USA suddenly turned into a third-world shithole but Canada didn't, I bet everyone here would be willing to hop the border in the face of whatever is waiting.
A shame that all that cleverness, fearlessness and determination can't be applied to, I don't know, fixing their own country? I guess they forgot how they became an independent country in the first place.

CPH and Kendall - If we can find a way to control how any money is spent (not using it so the governor of Sonora can buy a new mansion, for example), then I'd support an aid package.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
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