Our Business Now is North

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:58 pm

This was on BBC2 last night, as part of a series marking the 5th anniversary of the Iraq War. It's based around a speech made by Lt Colonel Tim Collins, commanding officer of the 1st Battalion, The Royal Irish Regiment, to his battalion, the day before the war began.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:55 pm

Okay, firstly:

The Link wrote:Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.

Screw you, BBC.

Secondly, can anyone give me a summary?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:56 pm

Okay, firstly:

The Link wrote:Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.

Screw you, BBC.

Secondly, can anyone give me a summary?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:00 pm

Rochey wrote:Okay, firstly:
The Link wrote:Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.
Screw you, BBC.

Bloody Beeb.

Sorry about that.

Secondly, can anyone give me a summary?

It's set in a British forward base just before the invasion, and (an abridged version of) the speech Col Collins gave his battalion the day before the war began. This is the full version:

We go to liberate not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Show respect for them.
There are some who are alive at this moment who will not be alive shortly. Those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others I expect you to rock their world. Wipe them out if that is what they choose. But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory.

Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham. Tread lightly there. You will see things that no man could pay to see and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing. Don't treat them as refugees for they are in their own country. Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you.

If there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves.

It is my foremost intention to bring every single one of you out alive but there may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow.

The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam. He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity.

It is a big step to take another human life. It is not to be done lightly. I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts, I can assure you they live with the Mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they go home to their family.

The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please.

If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer. You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest for your deeds will follow you down through history. We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation.

[Regarding the use by Saddam of chemical or biological weapons] It is not a question of if, it's a question of when. We know he has already devolved the decision to lower commanders, and that means he has already taken the decision himself. If we survive the first strike we will survive the attack.

As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there.

Our business now is north.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:01 pm

Rochey wrote:Okay, firstly:
The Link wrote:Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.
Screw you, BBC.

Bloody Beeb.

Sorry about that.

Secondly, can anyone give me a summary?

It's set in a British forward base just before the invasion, and (an abridged version of) the speech Col Collins gave his battalion the day before the war began. This is the full version:

Lt Col Tim Collins wrote:We go to liberate not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Show respect for them.
There are some who are alive at this moment who will not be alive shortly. Those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others I expect you to rock their world. Wipe them out if that is what they choose. But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory.

Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham. Tread lightly there. You will see things that no man could pay to see and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing. Don't treat them as refugees for they are in their own country. Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you.

If there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves.

It is my foremost intention to bring every single one of you out alive but there may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow.

The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam. He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity.

It is a big step to take another human life. It is not to be done lightly. I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts, I can assure you they live with the Mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they go home to their family.

The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please.

If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer. You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest for your deeds will follow you down through history. We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation.

It is not a question of if, it's a question of when. We know he has already devolved the decision to lower commanders, and that means he has already taken the decision himself. If we survive the first strike we will survive the attack.

As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there.

Our business now is north.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:43 pm

Thanks.
Interesting read, it's just a pity things didn't turn out that way. Of course, most of us new from the start exactly how it was going to end up.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:11 pm

I've always maintained that the invasion was a good thing, if only to get rid of Saddam. The incompetance of the US DoD in the immediate post-war era was responsible for the drama since then.

Plus of course, this is a battalion commander addressing his men before battle. He's not a politician trying to win votes or an analyst predicting what's most likely to happen. The gist of it is "we're in the right here, so get in, get the job done, don't act like a prat".

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:14 pm

Personaly, I'm not sure getting rid of Sadam was a great idea.
I agree entirely he was an evil, genocidal bastard, but he was the only one stopping the country collapsing into civil war, and he maintained a secular government and didn't impose Sharia law. I can only see things getting worse with his deposition, even the Kurds aren't going to come out of this much better.

Blackstar the Chakat · Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:39 pm

I saw one interviewed military guy saying, "this is not the war we signed on for." We thought this was going to be a short war to get WMD's out of Saddam's hands with no mention of an occupational force, and being told it would last maybe six months at most. Talk about misleading

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:41 pm

A similar speech was made before the Falklands enroute IIRC. By the Battalion CO of 2 Para who would earn the VC on Goose Green.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:44 pm

and being told it would last maybe six months at most.

Actualay, if you're referring to the quote I'm thinking of, they said it wouldn't last six months.

"I don't know how long it'll last. Six days? Six weeks? I doubt six months."

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:46 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:I saw one interviewed military guy saying, "this is not the war we signed on for." We thought this was going to be a short war to get WMD's out of Saddam's hands with no mention of an occupational force, and being told it would last maybe six months at most. Talk about misleading

1) I assume this "military guy" was US military. The pre-Iraq US Army wouldn't know a proper counterinsurgency doctrine if it kicked them in the goolies.

2) Six months is overoptimistic, but I think a year to 18 months could have seen the coalition withdrawn to overwatch and in the process of withdrawing, if it hadn't been for the complete lack of planning, and downright stupidity by the DoD.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:52 pm

Rochey wrote:Actualay, if you're referring to the quote I'm thinking of, they said it wouldn't last six months.

"I don't know how long it'll last. Six days? Six weeks? I doubt six months."

To play Devil's Advocate, Rumsfeld was right on that point. The problem was that he was talking about the initial invasion, and was under the delusion that once Saddam was deposed all would be sweetness and light, with McDonalds and free oil.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:58 pm

Ah, okay then.

Still, the whole Iraq war is just fuck-up after fuck-up. I knew everything was going to go to hell the moment I heard they disbanded the Iraqi army.

Blackstar the Chakat · Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:59 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Rochey wrote:Actualay, if you're referring to the quote I'm thinking of, they said it wouldn't last six months.

"I don't know how long it'll last. Six days? Six weeks? I doubt six months."
To play Devil's Advocate, Rumsfeld was right on that point. The problem was that he was talking about the initial invasion, and was under the delusion that once Saddam was deposed all would be sweetness and light, with McDonalds and free oil.

McDonalds, now the official sponser of the...whatever this war is called...does this war have an official name?