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Oh come on Tyyr, I bet you'd want to try a nice whale steak nearly as much as I would.

As for the traditional comment. It's certainly a part of the history of a country that's pretty focused on their past. I imagine they produce fewer tons of Katanas annually than they do whale meat.

And in any case as a luxury good it still can be viewed as important, and can be even more profitable than more common comodities. Think Diamonds, which, I guesstimate, have a market about on par with whale meat per capita.


Regarding the legality of interferring. The US could certainly interfeer without any country stopping us. Put a good face on it, maybe make some resolution, and off we go.

In any case even without a resolution one can probalby abuse the freedom of the high seas to be dicks. For example maybe we decide one of our aircraft carrier wings needs to practice low altitude supersonic passes....

There is a tremendous gulf between history and culture. Modern Japanese culture doesn't have any more a significant place in it for katanas than it does whale meat. A few purists still make katanas for a small group of collectors and a small group whales to supply a small and very wealthy group with whale meat.

If the Japanese stopped whaling tomorrow it would have about as much effect on their culture as the loss of caviar would to ours, none. Modern whaling vessels have nothing to do with the "tradition" of whaling. The only thing they have in common is they kill whales.

Sunny, seriously. The Japanese are the only modern country clamoring to get down to whaling simply because it is not economically viable. Even with the meat demanding premium prices in the markets its simply not worth doing. There is little to no reason to continue it. Hell, Japan actually has to subsidize their whaling activities to keep them profitable. They pumped $12 million into the industry in 2008 just so it could break even and the demand for whale is in decline. It's not a profitable growing business, it's an unprofitable shrinking one. It's not a benefit to the country, it cost their tax payers $12 million last year to keep it from going under.

They've either got a powerful lobby or the Japanese just like flipping everyone one.

From what I've heard, whale meat isn't even in demand in Japan. Hence why they started giving it to schools to feed the kids - no one's buying it. It seems like a completely unnecessary industry, which begs the question of why go through the expense and deal with the shit generated by doing it?

Someone a page or so back asked how it could escalate any further. Well, couldn't the Japanese just start mounting .50 cals on their whaling ships? From what I understand the problem with arming merchant ships to ward off pirates is down to foreign ports refusing to let an armed vessel in. But that problem obviously wouldn't exist if the only ports that the ship is sailing to is your own.
And since this is happening in international waters, all the whalers have to do is say that they felt the activists were a threat to them (and with the shit they've pulled, it's certainly a justifiable defence) and they're pretty much free to riddle the ship with machine gun rounds.

Aye, whatever the moral issues with hunting whales are, Sea Sheppard are a bunch of dicks. I have zero issue with opening fire on their wheelhouse or anything else vulnerable. Frankly it's only sheer luck that they haven't killed themselves yet.

Part of me has little moral issue with hunting them anyway, it's only what a predator does. However we probably hunt them far too much. However, the Sea Sheperds do indeed seem like total twats.

Well I'm not a fan of hunting endangered species, especially if they can't even sell the meat but I'm even less of a fan of fucking over the crew of a whaler, most of who are likely from the third world and just need a paycheck.

Reliant121 wrote:Part of me has little moral issue with hunting them anyway, it's only what a predator does. However we probably hunt them far too much. However, the Sea Sheperds do indeed seem like total twats.

I've no problem with hunting animals. What I do have a problem with is knowingly hunting endangered animals, which could easily result in their extinction.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Well I'm not a fan of hunting endangered species, especially if they can't even sell the meat but I'm even less of a fan of f***ing over the crew of a whaler, most of who are likely from the third world and just need a paycheck.

Agreed. The guys on the whaler itself are just guys trying to make a living - the shit Sea Shepherd pulls is completely out of line.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Aye, whatever the moral issues with hunting whales are, Sea Sheppard are a bunch of dicks. I have zero issue with opening fire on their wheelhouse or anything else vulnerable. Frankly it's only sheer luck that they haven't killed themselves yet.

Given some of the stunts they've pulled, like ramming whaling vessels or placing themselves right in the ship's path (thus allowing themselves to be rammed) seems like an excellent way to win a Darwin Award.

Tyyr wrote:There is a tremendous gulf between history and culture. Modern Japanese culture doesn't have any more a significant place in it for katanas than it does whale meat. A few purists still make katanas for a small group of collectors and a small group whales to supply a small and very wealthy group with whale meat.

But the point is that Katanas are still a large component of how they think of themselves. Especially regarding their glory days.

Does that sort of thing matter? In a democracy tradition and history matter as much as voters feel they do. Even if a given person only has whale once a decade and doesn't even like it all that much, if a politicians position on the mater could swing their vote if they're undecided, well, there you go.


As for providing whale meat to children, that appears to be more than just having to dump stock. Actually it's kinda interesting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00890.html

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Shifting gears a bit I don't think the "poor workers" argument is really a fair one in any situation. We're could probably drop to almost no unemployment in the US if we decided to completely screw over our environment but I doubt you'd support that.

I could keep running with the theme. Eventually probalby getting to poor Nazi's "just following orders" but I think you get the upshot.

sunnyside wrote:
Shifting gears a bit I don't think the "poor workers" argument is really a fair one in any situation. We're could probably drop to almost no unemployment in the US if we decided to completely screw over our environment but I doubt you'd support that.

I could keep running with the theme. Eventually probalby getting to poor Nazi's "just following orders" but I think you get the upshot.

There is a very good reason why third worlders make up a large portion of crew on merchant ships; their cheap and expendable. Japan is also a notoriously racist society. No one is going to give two craps if some Phillipino deckhand gets a face full of acid, as long as the ship isn't seriously damaged. So the only people that Sea Sheppard are hurting in this crap are the crews, the ships are all insured (as are the crews I imagine but I doubt they get much) and the actual cause of environmentalism. Does anyone on this board actually think they are going to get the Japanese to stop whaling by getting their own boats run over and fouling a few props?

These fucks are like PETA, just on the ocean.

And apparently she has sunk while under tow.

Sionnach Glic wrote:

Reliant121 wrote:Part of me has little moral issue with hunting them anyway, it's only what a predator does. However we probably hunt them far too much. However, the Sea Sheperds do indeed seem like total twats.

I've no problem with hunting animals. What I do have a problem with is knowingly hunting endangered animals, which could easily result in their extinction.

Minke whales are not endangered or close to it. The antarctic ones the Japanese hunt number some 660,000.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Well I'm not a fan of hunting endangered species, especially if they can't even sell the meat but I'm even less of a fan of f***ing over the crew of a whaler, most of who are likely from the third world and just need a paycheck.

Meh. I think both actions suck equally.

As to opening fire on the Sea Sam Sheppards... like I mentioned before - while it may only be what those maritime idiots deserve, what's gonna happen when a Japanese whaler defends himself by killing a UK citizen? Or an American one, or a German one? That man's nation is going to come down on Japan like a ton of bricks, regardless of whether the man was being a watery dick or not.

Mikey wrote:
Meh. I think both actions suck equally.

Hardly, especially if you get a faceful of acid over a sea going cow. Not all whales are intelligent, I'm not sure what the Japanese hunt but not all whales are equal, despite what eco-nuts bleat on about.

As to opening fire on the Sea Sam Sheppards... like I mentioned before - while it may only be what those maritime idiots deserve, what's gonna happen when a Japanese whaler defends himself by killing a UK citizen? Or an American one, or a German one? That man's nation is going to come down on Japan like a ton of bricks, regardless of whether the man was being a watery dick or not.

Nothing will happen, sure there will be a lot of shouting but there won't be any sanctions or anything like that. These guys willingly put themselves into the spot, they are not acting with the authority of any agency or government body, they are pirates.

Technically, they're not, as they're not generally attempting to steal anything. However, I understand what you're saying. I'm not voicing my desire - I think if these guys are dedicated/loony enough to put themselves out there, then they deserve whatever they get. However, just because a guy acts like a nut doesn't mean his nation will alow him to be killed without making a real, tangible stink. Remember, being loony for a purported cause plays a lot better in the news than just being loony.

Well they've stolen the credibility of the eco movement, does that count?