The Constitution class starship.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:40 pm

Thorin wrote:It blew up thanks to a warp core breach. I didn't see any of Khan's torpedos go near the warp core, did you? Only one torpedo caused the breach, too (according to Laforge). So it managed to withstand quite a few before then and was still able to function normally.

This shows where the E-nil was hit, and this shows the resulting damage. The equivalent shots of the E-D are here and here. The E-nil's damage is clearly more extensive. In addition, Khan knew exactly where to hit the E-nil to cause maximum damage, whereas the Duras sisters were simply taking potshots and hoping for the best.

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:41 pm

Losses in power due to a sudden power surge

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:56 pm

The point to see here is that to TOS ships can take more damage then TNG ships.

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:59 pm

The weapons the TNG era face are far more powerful than the TOS ones.

Also if you make something more powerful you also make it more suseptibal to massive damage.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:01 pm

But the hulls, sheids and armor of the TOS is far far weaker. So it all balances out. TOS will last longer in a fight then TNG. The only bright spot was Voy who seemed able to take huge damage and still keep on going (year of hell).

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:03 pm

It comes down to KISS

Keep it simple stupid.

TOS era ships are simple thus can take more damage. TNG era ships are more advanced so have more stuff to go wrong with them.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:51 pm

Very true, i'm glad we agree.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:55 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Thorin wrote:It blew up thanks to a warp core breach. I didn't see any of Khan's torpedos go near the warp core, did you? Only one torpedo caused the breach, too (according to Laforge). So it managed to withstand quite a few before then and was still able to function normally.
This shows where the E-nil was hit, and this shows the resulting damage. The equivalent shots of the E-D are here and here. The E-nil's damage is clearly more extensive. In addition, Khan knew exactly where to hit the E-nil to cause maximum damage, whereas the Duras sisters were simply taking potshots and hoping for the best.

Your point? A photon torpedo against the Galaxy does less damage than a photon torpedo against a Constitution... You'd rather it did more damage? I'm not getting what your trying to say at all.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:05 pm

Remember that the E-D had SIF and the E-O did not.

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:09 pm

Hmm thats true. While SIF doesn't stop damage like shields do it does localise it. Thats why whenever a TNG ship gets hit it tends to either be very localised damage or catastrophic.

Post by **Mikey** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:22 pm

I think we may be getting on to something, here. While TNG ships may be able to fend off more damage (in relative terms, I'm still not positive,) the TOS ships can survive more damage to the actual hull/systems without being incapacitated. And I agree that this fact may be due to the increasing complexxity, and therefore sensitivity, of the more modern designs.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:25 pm

I agree up to a point, then.

Imagine having a solid metal block the size of a normal TV, and a normal TV.
If you shoot the metal block with a magnum, it's still going to do its job, happily being a metal block.
If you shoot the TV with a magnum, it's no longer going to do its job.

Though slightly exagerated, this is what is going on. But it takes a few more shots to get through the casing of the TV, whereas you hit the metal block first go

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:35 pm

Aww, you guys had all the fun while I was at work.

Anyway, I think its safe to say that 24th century ships can withstand more damage, due to advances in armour and shielding.

However, TOS era ships can continue funtioning after hits to systems that would render a Galaxy useless. TOS ships seem to have gone for a more solid and redundant design than their 24th century counterparts.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:03 pm

Thorin wrote:Your point? A photon torpedo against the Galaxy does less damage than a photon torpedo against a Constitution... You'd rather it did more damage? I'm not getting what your trying to say at all.

My point is that the E-D suffered less damage, but then BLEW UP. The TNG-era ships would probably be able to survive more raw firepower being thrown at them due to better shielding, but once the shields are down, they can't withstand the same level of punishment as TOS ships.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:11 pm

It only blew up because of a warp core breach. If it hit the saucer section it wouldn't have blown it up.
The E-E took gazillions of torpedo and disrupter blasts to its hull and was still in fine working order, with only small hull breaches. One hit to the E-nil and it blows a great big gaping hole through all the saucer section.