If the EU was to become one nation.

[Sionnach Glic]

Okay. We touched briefly on this subject in a previous thread, but I'm interested in going into more detail on it. As the poll above states, is the EU becomming one nation at all possible, and would it be good or bad?
An explaination on your choice would also be appreciated.
I'd also be interested in hearing what our non-European members would think of such a union, as well.

Assume for the sake of this discussion, that the various countries that make up the EU would be given limited autonomy, similar to states in the USA.

For the record, I'm not voting. While I think it's likely to happen sometime in the future, I'm undecided as to whether or not it would be good or bad. Hence this thread.


EDIT: Also, assume that 'the EU' includes the countries that currently make up the EU, and the three candidate countries (Croatia, Macedonia, and Turkey). Also assume that the EU will not enlarge any more after unification.

EDIT #2: When I say 'good', I mean in terms of economy, government, standards of living, etc. I'm not asking whether you would wake up the next morning and go "Damn, we're one big country!" or "Yay! We're one big country!". Basicaly, would the countries benefit from unification?

[Reliant121]

Didn't the french Riot against it?

[Graham Kennedy]

I think it's clear that the heads of state intend it to happen in the long run. I also think it's clear that most of the European people don't want it, and so the government's solution is to simply not give them the choice. Sucks, but there you go.

As for whether it is good, depends on your criteria. I have no loyalty whatsoever to Europe, I do not regard myself as European, and I do not regard French, Italian or German people as my kinsmen. And I don't give a damn what treaties they pass, that will never change.

[Sionnach Glic]

They did?
Was such a thing ever even proposed? I know they had a hissy fit over the proposed European constitution a few years back because they didn't like some of the stuff in it, but I don't think there were riots over it.

EDIT (again): This was aimed at Reliant's comment.

[Sionnach Glic]

As for whether it is good, depends on your criteria.

Well, when I said 'good', I meant in terms of economy, government, laws, etc. What I'm really asking is whether a unified Europe would be good for the European countries that would get into it.

[Reliant121]

I, if I was fully English or British, would not consider Europeans of my Kin. But because I have a small part of Belgium routed somewhere in me, I do consider them brothers and sisters in a complicated way.

But it will not do any good for our country to be choked by the European union. And I will not support it.

[Sionnach Glic]

I, if I was fully English or British, would not consider Europeans of my Kin. But because I have a small part of Belgium routed somewhere in me, I do consider them brothers and sisters in a complicated way.

Okay, but that's not really what I was asking. I understand that you'd feel no real connection to someone from Germany (neither would I), but what I want to know is if it'd be a good thing for the economy, standards of living, and such.

But it will not do any good for our country to be choked by the European union. And I will not support it.

Okay, that's sorta what I was looking for. In what way would you consider Britain to be "choked"?

[Monroe]

I think its likely in a hundred to a hundred and fifty years.

[Sionnach Glic]

Okay, cool.
Do you think it'd have good effects, though?

[Reliant121]

The Restrictions the EU put on vehicles (emittions and such), Food (standards), Alcohol and medical care, all of which the current government would have to implement, would completely alter the laws and systems in place here. And for what benefit?

[Sionnach Glic]

The Restrictions the EU put on vehicles (emittions and such), Food (standards), Alcohol and medical care, all of which the current government would have to implement, would completely alter the laws and systems in place here. And for what benefit?

Well, you'd have lower emissions, better food health standards, along with restrictions on alcohol and (presumably) better standards of medical care. Why would that be a bad thing? Personaly, I see no problem with them.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

The Restrictions the EU put on vehicles (emittions and such), Food (standards), Alcohol and medical care, all of which the current government would have to implement, would completely alter the laws and systems in place here. And for what benefit?

Well, you'd have lower emissions, better food health standards, along with restrictions on alcohol and (presumably) better standards of medical care. Why would that be a bad thing? Personaly, I see no problem with them.

Lucky... You'll have a government that cares about people.

I say go for it. It worked for the USA. As for kinship, that will come a few decades later, when the generation that's grown up after the EU become a country begins running the show. As for loyalty to the EU, that's each individual's choice. I don't feel that much loyalty to the USA(but I did grow up in the Bush era so it may just be the government I'm not loyal to) and if there was a draft I'm telling everyone I'm moving to Canada (but in reality I'll be in Mexico).

Besides it'll be easier to keep track of one country rather then the hundred or so countrys are in europe.

[Sionnach Glic]

As for kinship, that will come a few decades later, when the generation that's grown up after the EU become a country begins running the show.

I'd say it'd take more than a few decades. There's major differences between someone from Eastern Europe and Western Europe, or someone from Britain and Italy. Hell, we don't even all speak the same language. And there's quite a lot who think that some countries, particularly in Eastern Europe, should never have been let into the EU at all.
Though you are right that such a thing would, eventualy, arise. But it would take a lot of time. Hell, there's still divisions in US society, and they've had a long time to sort that out.

[Captain Seafort]

It's pretty plain that the various European heads of government are strongly in favour of a "United States of Europe". Whether their intentions are carried through is less certain, but what is certain is that any such unification would be a disaster.

Economics: the economies of the various EU member states are substantially different - measures necessary to the smooth running of one country's economy would be a disaster in another. This tendency is exacarbated by the profusion of poor southern and eastern countries that have joined the EU in recent years, and absorb a disproportionate amount of the EU budget. This is probably largely due to the manifest incompetance of the European Parliament, which has never had it's budget signed off as balancing by the accountants employed to check it - this has been going on for the last 15 years.

Politics: even worse than the economics. The aim of the European parliament and Commission is to gain more power for itself at the expense of the population. The Commission in particular, which holds most of the power, is appointed with no regard to the principles of democracy, and has the power to overrule elected national parliaments with no oversight by elected representatives. The Parliament is slightly more democratic, but its use of proportional respresentation allows the elected of extremist fringe movements, and has no direct accountability of members to constituents in the manner of a first-past-the-post system. They also highly corrupt, with a tendency to line their own pockets by authorising salaries to non existent staff, among other methods.

[Sionnach Glic]

the economies of the various EU member states are substantially different - measures necessary to the smooth running of one country's economy would be a disaster in another.

Good point. Would there be a way to fix this, though?

This tendency is exacarbated by the profusion of poor southern and eastern countries that have joined the EU in recent years, and absorb a disproportionate amount of the EU budget.

Again, quite true. Would it be at all realistic to attempt to get these economies anywhere near those of Western Europe? Wouldn't attempting to get them up to speed be made easier if the EU itself could actualy step in and work things out, rather than just prodding the local governments in the right direction?
Sorry if the above is stupid, I've honestly got no clue when it comes to this sort of thing.

Politics: *snippage*

Eh, quite right, again. Would it be at all possible to rectify this should the EU become one nation, though? Surely the fact that these people are now running the countries, rather than just giving them a hand, would prompt the public to demand these things to be fixed, right?