2 British soldiers killed in NI, 4 wounded

[Captain Seafort]

They're already in the UK.

[Sionnach Glic]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm curious, why don't you just give the Irish back their Island?

You're a bit behind the times, I think.

The situation in the North is all types of screwy.

Back when the British agreed to allow the formation of the Irish Free State (which later became the Republic of Ireland), an agreement was made that the island would be partitioned. The six counties in the north-east of the island would remain part of the United Kingdom, due to the wishes of the majority of the population up there. There were a load of reasons why they wanted to remain part of Britain, including economic factors, a sense of loyalty and a fear of religious persecution.

Naturaly, the Irish Republican Army was rather pissed that the entire island wasn't given independance (ignoring the fact that the north didn't want independance at that point). They moved their operations up north, and for several decades orchestrated a campaign of terrorist actions against the British up there that lasted for decades. In typical British spirit, this terror campaign was dubbed as "The Troubles".

In the late 90's, the Provisional IRA (one of the many splinter groups of the original IRA that popped up over the years) agreed to a ceasefire with the British authorities, allowing everyone on both sides of the border to breathe a sigh of relief. Of course, the problem is that there are so many different IRA splinter groups, getting one to agree with a ceasefire doesn't necessarily mean that the violence is going to die down.

Now, it appears some faction of the IRA has decided to spark the war up again. With a 300 pound carbomb discovered outside a school last month and now six people shot in a British army barracks, I think we're beginning to see the origins of a new campaign up there. They're probably hoping to take advantage of the fact that the British are deploying a lot of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You guys are still fighting over there? Wow, I thought this stuff was over.

So did we.

[Sionnach Glic]

Deep: As Seafort pointed out, the North of Ireland is part of the UK. They want (or wanted, I'm not too sure on public opinion up there as of now) to remain part of Britain. When it looked like Ireland was going to get home rule (not independance, keep in mind, just home rule. They'd still have been part of Britain) they threatened to resist its implementation with force of arms, forming the Ulster Volunteer Force with over a million pounds worth of guns.

Later, the British offered to give the North home rule of its own, but they refused again, wanting nothing less but to maintain the full union between themselves and Britain.

[Captain Seafort]

Naturaly, the Irish Republican Army was rather pissed that the entire island wasn't given independance (ignoring the fact that the north didn't want independance at that point). They moved their operations up north, and for several decades orchestrated a campaign of terrorist actions against the British up there that lasted for decades. In typical British spirit, this terror campaign was dubbed as "The Troubles".

To expand this slightly, the "Official" IRA was responsible for several periods of violence since the Anglo-Irish War and the formation of the Free State in the early 20s, up to their final cease-fire in the early 70s. The Troubles generally referred to lasted from 1968 when the army was sent into the province (ironically to protect the Catholic population from so-called "loyalist" thugs) to either 1997 (when the Belfast Agreement was signed with Sinn Fein) or 2008 (when the army officially stood down from operations). This was, by and large, against the "Provisional" IRA - the Provos.

The lot responsible for this latest shooting are apparently the "Real" IRA - the same lot responsible for Omagh.

[Sionnach Glic]

The lot responsible for this latest shooting are apparently the "Real" IRA - the same lot responsible for Omagh.

Hm, they'd have been up there on my own suspect list right enough.

On a related note, Sinn Féin has condemned the attack:

Statement from Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams, MP, MLA.

Published: 8 March, 2009

Commenting on last night's attack in county Antrim Mr. Adams said:
"Last nights attack was an attack on the peace process. It was wrong and counter productive. "

"Those responsible have no support, no strategy to achieve a United Ireland. Their intention is to bring British soldiers back onto the streets. They want to destroy the progress of recent times and to plunge Ireland back into conflict."

"Irish republicans and democrats have a duty to oppose this and to defend the peace process. Sinn Fein has a strategy to bring about an end to British rule in our country by peaceful and democratic means."

"There should be an end to actions like the one in Antrim last night. The popular will is for peaceful and democratic change."

"Sinn Fein has a responsibility to be consistent. The logic of this is that we support the police in the apprehension of those involved in last nights attack."

"The police also have a responsibility to give leadership and to behave at all times in a transparent and accountable manner. The British Government has a duty to uphold the new political arrangement and the peace process."

"I particularly want to appeal to republicans once again for calm, thoughtful and decisive leadership. "

"The peace process was built against the odds and not least because of the willingness of republicans to take risks and to be strategic and long sighted."

"There are elements within Unionism and within the British system who do not want the peace process to achieve its objectives. Our responsibility is to defend the peace process and the progress that has been made to achieving national and democratic rights. "

"We will not be deflected from our republican and democratic objectives."

From their own site.

For those of you abroad who don't see the relevance, Sinn Féin was the political wing of the IRA. As you can see from the above, they're still pretty determined to kick the British out.

[Lazar]

Just out of curiosity, I looked to see if any polling had been done about reunification in the Republic, and according to this 2005 poll, it was about 55% for and 45% against.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, but that's down here. What we think doesn't really matter, it's what they think.

And yeah, we're not overly thrilled with the idea of unification down here, oddly enough. Most people in both regions would be perfectly happy if the IRA just pissed off and the borders stayed up.

[Lt. Staplic]

okay, that makes sence then.

sounds as if the IRA are planning on having Iraq be it's France (In reference to our own break with the brits)

[Deepcrush]

Sounds a lot like the border wars my family used to tell stories about when I grew up. Only those were before car bombs.

[Captain Seafort]

sounds as if the IRA are planning on having Iraq be it's France (In reference to our own break with the brits)

Hardly. The Iraqis are in no shape to provide military assistance even if they wanted to. This is simply a case of a bunch of thugs digging up an old arms cache and trying to resume the drama of the last forty years.

If anyone was the IRA's "France", it was the US.

[Tsukiyumi]

...If anyone was the IRA's "France", it was the US.

I'm not being sarcastic; I honestly don't know much about it - How, exactly, did we help the IRA?

[Sionnach Glic]

Basicaly, you gave loads of funds to Sinn Féin, the IRA's political wing (three guesses where most of those funds went), failed to detain known IRA terrorists moving too and from the US, refused to assist the British in any real way against them, and were nice and friendly with Gerry Adams, Sinn Féin's leader.
In short, you were a great source of arms and funds for the IRA, and did damn all to hinder their operations in your own country.

[Lt. Staplic]

not me, that was pretty much over before I was born!

what I ment wasn't the military assistance, but the alternative punching bag for the brits to fight creating the dual front, making it easier to win.

[Sionnach Glic]

Iraq and Afghanistan will certainly help the IRA due to the fact that Britain's military is busy patroling those countries as well. But I think if shit really hits the fan on their home turf, the UK would be quick to pull troops back.

[Tsukiyumi]

Basicaly, you gave loads of funds to Sinn Féin, the IRA's political wing (three guesses where most of those funds went), failed to detain known IRA terrorists moving too and from the US, refused to assist the British in any real way against them, and were nice and friendly with Gerry Adams, Sinn Féin's leader.
In short, you were a great source of arms and funds for the IRA, and did damn all to hinder their operations in your own country.

I honestly didn't know that.