Eugenics Debate

[Tsukiyumi]

So... Sterilize anyone who's been to prison?

I have a problem with that, considering how many Americans are sent to prison for victimless crimes.

[Monroe]

So... Sterilize anyone who's been to prison?

I have a problem with that, considering how many Americans are sent to prison for victimless crimes.

Well if they're sterile then it'll stay a victimless crime. i.e. no kid to ignore while getting high.

[stitch626]

And what about the ones sent to prison who aren't actually guilty. Granted that it has decreased greatly now that we can do DNA testing, but it still does occur.

Or, if such did occur, do we just let the guy sue and wash our hands of the responsibility.

[Tsukiyumi]

So... Sterilize anyone who's been to prison?

I have a problem with that, considering how many Americans are sent to prison for victimless crimes.

Well if they're sterile then it'll stay a victimless crime. i.e. no kid to ignore while getting high.

Cool; while we're at it, we'll go ahead and sterilize anyone who drinks or takes prescription drugs.

...Or, if such did occur, do we just let the guy sue and wash our hands of the responsibility.

Sue? If I were forcibly sterilized for no reason, I wouldn't be suing people...

[stitch626]

Well, I was going for understatement.
Don't want to exaggerate all the time.

[Tsukiyumi]

Well, I was going for understatement.
Don't want to exaggerate all the time.

No exaggeration here; I'd go completely apeshit if I were forcibly sterilized for doing nothing wrong.

[stitch626]

I probly would too.

I just don't understand the concept of sterilizing prisoners. Crime is not just genetic (if at all). It is a combination of many things.

[Captain Picard's Hair]

wrt criminal behavior, any newborn can become a criminal with the right (or should I say, wrong) upbringing. Now, I wouldn't want certain "bad" people raising children because this environment would often put the children in a bad position and (statistically) more likely to be promiscuous early, commit petty crimes, and possibly move on to bigger and worse-er things. But, how we can ethically enforce this idea is a tougher question.

[Monroe]

And what about the ones sent to prison who aren't actually guilty. Granted that it has decreased greatly now that we can do DNA testing, but it still does occur.

Or, if such did occur, do we just let the guy sue and wash our hands of the responsibility.

Same thing that happens when we sent innocent people to prison or kill them today. Whoops.
Most procedures to sterilize are reversible anyway.

I think its odd that so many people are in favor of there being a test for a person to be a parent, I hear that remark all the time about bad parents. But if you dare to bring up eugenics or a child limit people start to freak out

[Mikey]

I can't believe there is even a discussion that has gone on this long. Any form of eugenics - be it sterilization of a certain segment of the populace or simple Therisenstadt-style ovens - is so amazingly disgusting that I'm literally surprised that there are this many people (who I know to be intelligent and decent) talking about it.

[Monroe]

How is it wrong to put laws that limit who comes into being? We have laws that limit who comes into our country who are already alive. Why not keep people who can't control their sexual urges from pooping out babies who they'll never intend on taking care of? Reproduction should be a privileged not a right.

[Mikey]

Why? Because once any entity takes that decision upon itself, the internment of "undesirables" follows, then the extermination. It's a slippery slope to Auschwitz. In addition, reproduction is abasic, primal, Jungian motivation. Would you legislate who is allowed to eat?

[Monroe]

Why? Because once any entity takes that decision upon itself, the internment of "undesirables" follows, then the extermination. It's a slippery slope to Auschwitz.

That's like saying laws that keep heavy assault rifles out of US gun shops is the first step towards getting rid of all shotguns, pistols, and rifles.

In addition, reproduction is a basic, primal, Jungian motivation. Would you legislate who is allowed to eat?

Eating does not harm anyone else (unless you have bad gas). Reproduction creates new life that did not have any say in being created. No one asked the new infant if they wanted to be born with defect or prematurely because their mother does drugs. The infant is a victim when a poor parent creates them. I'm not talking about people of a certain ethnicity (as diversity is good!), or small behavior problems. I'm talking about people who can't take care of their own lives much less a baby's.

[Tsukiyumi]

Since my parents required government assistance to pay for my birth, and my dad was hurt on the job a few years later, leading to our subsequent extreme poverty, I'm wondering whether I would exist at all under such a system.

[Mikey]

That's like saying laws that keep heavy assault rifles out of US gun shops is the first step towards getting rid of all shotguns, pistols, and rifles.

They are. The fact that the second step hasn't been taken doesn't change that.

Eating does not harm anyone else (unless you have bad gas). Reproduction creates new life that did not have any say in being created. No one asked the new infant if they wanted to be born with defect or prematurely because their mother does drugs. The infant is a victim when a poor parent creates them. I'm not talking about people of a certain ethnicity (as diversity is good!), or small behavior problems. I'm talking about people who can't take care of their own lives much less a baby's.

All well and good, but htat doesn't address my point - how do legislate primal, archetypal behavioral motivations? Besides, half the problem is that someone gets to decide. There are members of my family who died very early because someone in Poland in 1940 decided that Jews weren't beneficial to the populace of the land that Germany had conquered.

Since my parents required government assistance to pay for my birth, and my dad was hurt on the job a few years later, leading to our subsequent extreme poverty, I'm wondering whether I would exist at all under such a system.

You wouldn't. I lost my job in May of 2007, and didn't find work again until the winter. I suppose my daughter should have been taken away?