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So who here is annoyed anytime they see this reaction to someone saying 'I dont read/watch this sort of content as I'm -insert descriptor here-' as "go away -insertdescriptor-phobic asshole".

after my quick joke I just made (in this subforum) I got to thinking on this, so you know that, specifically, I refer to a) I'm heterosexual and b, the phobic is "homophobic".

I read a lot of Fanfiction for all sorts of fandoms, and one thing all of the communities has in common, is a significant portion is not only about "shipping", but shipping two people of the same gender that is male. a much smaller portion by far is the shipping community that ships two people of the same gender that is female. Like seriously, in "hollywood" (not just hollywood but you know what I mean) there has been a much greater representation, whether good or bad, of lesbians than gay couples, yet it has been the opposite in the fan communities for a long time. For Instance, in regards Star Trek - Kirk/Spock.

As a heterosexual male, hollywood thinks that what I want in a film is explosions, and two hot girls getting it on and maybe a hot girl for the "audience surrogate" character(s). That as a heterosexual male, I cannot sit through a so-called "chick flick", etc etc etc insert more about stereotypes and stuff etc.

That's why a large portion of fanfiction is outright shipping, I think. anyway. I tend not to read stories involving gay characters. I'm not homophobic, I don't chant "kill all gays" and so on, it's live and let live to me, I just dont want to see or hear it unless I go looking for it, and as I'm heterosexual, I'm not going to look for it. Kind of like how people who could be termed "prudes" probably dont want to see sex scenes in films, if they wanted that, they'd go look up some porn and since when do prudes look up porn?

Essentially, the same argument, yet I'd be crucified in comment sections of fan sites (HAVE been crucified in fact) for even saying "yeah this story is totally worth making myself feel uncomfortable reading through the scenes specifically about this gay couple that is actually prominent and therefore these scenes are large and numerous, because the rest of it is awesome" Theyd just see "dont like gay stuff dont read homophobic asshole"... as If I didn't say that I'm tolerating something that makes me uncomfortable because of another element or elements or more of the story is worth that temporary discomforture.

They're thinking like I said "I didn't watch brokeback mountain because its about a bunch of gay cowboys who should be shot blabla more hate-on-gays". ... No seriously what?!

Anyway, if I was homophobic, well, I wouldn't have read various stories just for containing a hint of characters being anything except straight, and certainly not a large fanfic series where one of the main couples is in fact a pair of dudes. I'm not interested in the relationship, but it doesn't disgust me is what I'm saying. if my older brother said "Oh yeah and I'm gay" I'ld be like, "... Really? Oh. ok. Um. Yeah whatever hope you're happy, talk to you later." with later being no later or earlier than the long-time between chats (we dont talk much anyway). It's a non-issue I have no interest in.

Other "issues":. Skin color. I don't care what color your skin in. My issues with characters in fiction have never stemmed from that. Or from gender. yet hollywood treats us like were both sexist and racist. "oh you dont like Discovery because the MC is a black woman?! WaH?!" nevermind that the first trek show I was a fan of was led by a woman, and my altogether favourite is led by a black man, and I was annoyed with the producers for not developing their "not a white dude or robot" characters properly in any of the shows, because no really, did the shows ever properly develop a character that wasn't at least three of these: male, white, a robot of some sort or a show's main char?
TNG: they developed Picard, Riker (male, white, main), Data (male, robot, main), yet I don't think they ever really developed say, geordi (male and main char but not white, nor a robot), Deanna (white main char, but not male, robot), etc.
DS9: They did develop Sisko, but they kind of had to even though he was neither white or a robot. As for bashir, they certainly tricked me as a kid into thinking he was white, but realised it was a trick of lighting or makeup or I just didn't notice the skin tone as I only later saw his performance in Game of Thrones and thought "dude got tanned weirdly... wait..." (No really I really did think he was white! maybe it was the contrast between him and sisko... and maybe because skin color wasn't even a concern to me so I never picked up on it!). We lost my favourite character from that show because of the issues with character development - Jadzia.
VOY: This time, our captain wasn't developed properly because the laziness had now set in. Of the bridge crew? ?Janeway, nope. Chakotay, NOPE. Harry? nope. Tuvok? nope. Tom? Yeap. Wait, lets check that last one: Male, yes, white, yes, robot, no, last item: Main char... yeap that checks out. Other mains: EMH: he's a Male White Robot Main Character... of course he has the most development one could get because he's the direct "data" analogue of the show! OR Digital, since Data is physical analogue and the EMH is digital analogue of Spock. And as much as we'd like to say Seven got development, not really, as there's not actually that much difference from end-of-show seven and mid-s4-seven. Whereas there are plenty of shows where I can tell what season I'm watching by how the characters are written and protrayed.

What "politically charged" issues do you guys encounter were the issue itself is very much uncomfortable for you, but you dont treat it in a "phobic" manner but get called that anyway? I mean, aside from hating on Discovery and both JJtrek and JJWars and therefore coming under hollywood's blanket "toxic fandom" b.s.

I'm more or less with you on that one. I applaud putting gays into stuff like Trek (and for a series that still brags on an interracial kiss that happened over 50 years ago as a sign of how woke it is, it sure took them long enough), but honestly for my own preference I could never see two male gay characters again and be perfectly fine with it. Put a couple of sexy lesbians in and I'm good. Hypocritical? Sure, I guess, but I'm fine with it.

Skin colour, I genuinely don't care about. I know it's a horrible cliche to say you're blind to colour, and I get it's really a thing only white people even have the option to honestly say. But I really am. I watched Luke Cage and was like seven episodes in before I even noticed that virtually all the characters were black. And no, it didn't bother me. Make any character any colour you like, I don't care.

I never really thought much about or cared much about Michael Burnham being a black woman. I'd already seen Sisko and Janeway, and I didn't care that they were black and female respectively. I laughed at people who complained and wondered if they'd ever seen DS9 or Voyager. My issue with Burnham is far more that she's a moronic incompetent traitor who the writers constantly laud as the Best Thing Evah. I watch Discovery episodes (when I did) and constantly rooted for her to fail and go back to prison where she belongs, or failing that to die, and that's not really a great way to watch a show (which is why I don't any more). But I could care less that she's a woman or black. And yeah, it does get intensely irritating when it's presumed that if you don't like the character it must be because you're a sexist racist.

I'll note in passing, IMO the Trek writers have not often done very well with women. They frequently fall back on giving us a "hook" for female characters - Deanna the Empath, Kira the ex-Terrorist, Dax the Trill, Seven the ex-Borg, etc. There are exceptions (Janeway), but my impression is that the writers don't really know what to do with a female character unless there's some hook that's nothing to do with her being female.

Outside racism and sexism... when I express political opinions online I get called a liberal a lot by Americans, who all seem to assume that I'm about half a step away from Stalin and Chairman Mao because I support universal health care and aren't fond of guns in private ownership. I guess by US standards I am a screaming liberal, but in the UK that makes me probably centre-right, on economic issues, and somewhere centre left on social issues, with about a five mile gap to communism.

Graham Kennedy wrote:

Outside racism and sexism... when I express political opinions online I get called a liberal a lot by Americans, who all seem to assume that I'm about half a step away from Stalin and Chairman Mao because I support universal health care and aren't fond of guns in private ownership. I guess by US standards I am a screaming liberal, but in the UK that makes me probably centre-right, on economic issues, and somewhere centre left on social issues, with about a five mile gap to communism.

By my standards I'd call those views 'sane'.

I won't say it makes more uncomfortable but more of curiosity more than anything else. The so called fruity gay. Lisp and all. It's a curiousity because while I have met a few of these types of gay men in real life, I have met more gay men who will pass a straight man.

Hollywood seems to make it seem like if you are gay, you will act more feminine.

But I am just curious on causes it. Is it society that creates that or does it happen on its own? Like the lisp for example, if we were to say the feminine gay man was acting more feminine then they shouldn't have it, right? Women don't have a lisp or one that pronounced at least.



I am not gay, so maybe I just have that insight to it.