Ticketed for flashing headlights?

[Lighthawk]

When it comes to speed traps set by law enforcement to snare unsuspecting drivers, it turns out that drivers are trying to help other drivers slow down and avoid the hefty tickets.

One such county where there has been a kind of headlight driven on-road social network has been Volusia County, Florida where some 2,900 motorists earned tickets between 2005 and 2009 for flashing their headlights at other drivers to warn them of the approaching speed trap.

The police didn't like being ratted out, so they issued tickets to the whistle-blowers turned headlight flashers.

An Oviedo, Florida attorney last September filed a class action lawsuit against the Volusia County Sheriff's Office alleging that the tickets were wrongfully issued. Last Monday, the Sheriff's office was standing fast in defending their ticket issuing policy. But, a day later, the office reversed direction and said it would stop the practice for now.

"After reviewing the issues at today's staff meeting, the sheriff has directed that our deputies cease writing tickets," sheriff's spokesman Gary Davidson said in an emailed statement. Other counties have also backed down until the class action suit is settled. One, the Flagler County Sheriff's office, though, said it would keep writing tickets on speed-trap headlight flashers.

The lawsuit claims flashing headlights to other drivers is protected under the First Amendment and should be considered free speech.

Marc Jones, the Oviedo attorney who filed the lawsuit, said Tuesday he wasn't surprised by the number of agencies that have backed down in the wake of the legal action.

Last January, Circuit Judge Joseph Will struck down a citation handed out to an Osteen, Fla. man by the Volusia County Sheriff's Office in 2009 while also offering his opinion on the matter.

"The court is not convinced that drivers are precluded from signaling their fellow travelers that officers are nearby by turning their headlights off and on or similarly signaling with their high beams. The Judge continued: "One does wonder in passing if the driver would have been ticketed if he had been signaling other drivers to be cautious because of the presence of a warm puppy or a kindly grandmother using a walker to cross the street."

Source

So...exactly what law are the people flashing their headlights breaking that allows the police to ticket them? I'm pretty sure "annoying an officer" isn't a ticket-able offense.

[stitch626]

Flashing of lights is one of the only forms of communication possible between drivers (aside from ramming them).

[Mikey]

Flashing one's high beams to warn oncoming traffic of a speed trap is a long-standing practice, and common courtesy. I'm sorry if this county needs to raise money that way, or the sheriff's officers need to make their quota that way, but the goal behind a speed trap should be to reduce speeding rather than to hand out citations. This is just another case of the elitist, "above the plebes" attitude common in the worst cases of LE abuse.

[Deepcrush]

The whole point of the speed trap is to catch those who are speeding, not just tell them to slow down for the next quarter mile. Its nothing to do with quota or elitist issues, more that they don't feel like hearing people bitch about the latest kid to get turned into paste on the sidewalk. Law Enforcement is about enforcing the law which may surprise many here. There are two options for people who speed, give them a ticket and try to get them to learn better driving through pocket cost. Or you just take their DL and tell them to call a cab for the rest of their life.

From a personal point of view, I've had to stand and talk to parents who've just buried a kid. Sometimes its tough, others its hard for me not to laugh in their faces. The "My kid was a good kid"... who was drunk driving and rammed into another car that killed several other people along with the people in the car that their kid was driving.

[Mikey]

OK... but back to this discussion. If people slow down because they were warned about a speed trap, or if one person slows down because he gets ticketed - which is better? More to the point: if you think that the sheriff's officers (not cops) who ticketed the innocent drivers who flashed their beams did so only out of their deep love of the law or concern for the plight of drivers on a dangerous road, then you're delusional.

[Deepcrush]

OK... but back to this discussion.

Never left it. The point is to consider would you still be so pissy about the cops if their work saved your kid. Or would you just be pissy because it would be your kid's body they are laughing at on the side of the road. Law Enforcement isn't a "be happy or nothing" deal. Sometimes there are issues like this one were the matter seems silly until you look at a larger picture.

If people slow down because they were warned about a speed trap, or if one person slows down because he gets ticketed - which is better?

Oh of course thats the only possible outcome right? Because no one slows down when they see a Police trap with a couple of cars stopped by it.

if you think that the sheriff's officers (not cops) who ticketed the innocent drivers who flashed their beams did so only out of their deep love of the law or concern for the plight of drivers on a dangerous road, then you're delusional.

Interfering with Law Enforcement is a crime. Informing on Police control measures is a crime. Giving people tickets for messing with Police attempts to enforce law isn't a crime, in fact its rather sensible.

[Mikey]

You're speaking to the technicality of the issue, which is true but is also hard to believe is the motivation. I'm not sure what this has to do with anybody's kids dying by the roadside, but it probably makes sense to you... in my world, if people slow to a safe speed either because they are cited or because they are warned about a speed trap, then the fact of having slowed doesn't change.

However, you will never be able to convince me that the reason for citing all those drivers who flashed was concern for public safety rather than a Cartman-esque, "respect mah authoritay" frame of mind. The cops (sheriff's officers, I know) were pissed that they were getting beat by lowly commoners, and decided to get back at them. EOS.

[stitch626]

Flashing lights is more generally used and accepted as an indication of trouble ahead and for the other driver to be aware. This could be anything from a speed trap to a downed tree (this from my driving course instructor). Ticketing for this form of communication inhibits safety on the road.

[Deepcrush]

Flashing for trouble is different then flashing and giving away a police stop.

[stitch626]

Visually no difference. Only flash I know of is the double tap (if there is a usually done difference, then I will shut up about it).

[Captain Seafort]

Visually no difference.

Irrelevant - if the flasher has just come through a speed trap, with no hazards in the area, then they're clearly warning the flashee of the trap. Throw the book at them.As Deep points out, the objective is to slow people down by hitting them where it hurts - in the wallet, and the effect is dramatically reduced if people are going round alerting other road users so they can slow down through the trap and then floor it again.

[Mikey]

The whole point is not one of the law - the amount of citations involved here shows that the reasoning for the citations was the officers' offended pride and disgruntlement at the lack of tickets to add to their quota. Yes, people should have respect for the law - and it follows that people should have respect for LE until a LE official proves himself unworthy. However; you can beat people into being cowed, into fear, into humility, and into submission - but you can't beat respect into people, and the attempt to do so on the part of these officers was despicable.

[Deepcrush]

The point is the law, its a speeding law. The fact that you're pissy about it doesn't change that speeding is against the law. What's also against the law is helping someone break the law.

[Mikey]

As I said, you're technically correct. What I'm discussing is that the officers involved issued those situations, not because of their deep sensibilities concerning the law, but because of their pissy and elitist attitudes. The same speeding laws mean that you can't drive over the speed limit, even if you're taking your momma to the ER - but does a cop have to stop you and issue you a citation for it?

[Graham Kennedy]

Interfering with Law Enforcement is and should be a crime IF we're talking about people who impede the police from catching people who are breaking the law.

But the flashing lights thing doesn't impede the police at all - rather it encourages the drivers to stop breaking the law.

If you're breaking the law and I see you and say "Hey, stop that, you'll get caught!" and you stop... is it really sensible to blame me for getting in the way of the cops?

Just for comparison's sake, by the way, in the UK police speed traps are only allowed to be set up in certain designated locations, all of which are freely available on a public database. Sat nav systems have the locations programmed in and sound a warning when you approach one. Same thing for fixed automatic speed cameras. But here the stated purpose of all such traps is not "to catch speeders" but "to prevent speeding in spots where it would be dangerous to speed". If my satnav tells me there's a speed trap location or camera ahead and I slow down to the limit because of it, that's a win in their book.