Oklahoma to form Militia to Combat the US Government

[Monroe]

Sadly I don't have a link since I watched this on Maddow on TV but the jist of it is in Oklahoma the Tea Party governor candidate is forming a Oklahoma only militia designed for the sole purpose of combating the federal government. If he won the race ouch that would mean armed rebellion or the attempt to. Pretty wild stuff.

[Tyyr]

The guy isn't advocating armed rebellion if he wins the race.

[Graham Kennedy]

So what's this militia for, then? How does a militia oppose the government if not by arms?

[Sionnach Glic]

Yeah, because armed rebellion worked just great last time, right?

Here's a more detailed news article on it.

My take on it is that the vast majority of these people are all talk and no action. They seem to think holding guns and yelling louder than anyone else will be enough to get their way. It's possible they think that forming a militia will give them some ability to intimidate officials without actualy saying anything.

Very few will take any real action, but I'd be surprised if we get through Obama's first term without a bunch of loonies trying something serious.

[Tyyr]

So what's this militia for, then? How does a militia oppose the government if not by arms?

Have you considered the possibility that these rednecks haven't entirely thought this plan through?

[Graham Kennedy]

Hmmm, I suppose that is a possibility...

[Mikey]

So what's this militia for, then? How does a militia oppose the government if not by arms?

Have you considered the possibility certainty that these rednecks haven't entirely thought this plan through?

Fixed it for you. Besides, this is Oklahoma we're talking about - without the Federal government, who is going to pay all those farmers to not grow anything?

[Mark]

Do we REALLY need to recount my Oklahoma stories again?

[Tyyr]

Depends, was the sisters and meth story from Oklahoma? If yes then we do want to get back into them.

[Mark]

Indeed. The sisters, the meth, AND "Uncle Jed's" farm with the homemade moonshine and the confederate flag proudly waiving were all symptoms of Oklahoma

[sunnyside]

Obviously they're still in the formulative stages if that.

From a practical point of view, any organized group of people can oppose a wide range of things in a democracy. A voting bloc with guns is still a voting bloc, and having guns gives them something to lose if "gun control" passes and a common hobby, making them perhaps more cohesive and long lasting compared to other grass roots voter groups.

Sorta like if some Dems formed a "Marijuana Militia"


As for actually using the guns in order to avoid federal laws. Gangs have demonstrated that this can be done with a reasonable level of effectiveness. For example in Philly you can have drug deals and open gun battles on the street and be assured that nobody saw anything so long as you have the proper affiliation. However I'm thinking these folk are too law abiding for that. Especially if this militia is created under actual legislation.

They could be used in an anti crime role I suppose. The laws regarding the use of firearms against criminals are....lenient in Oklahoma to my understanding, and a Jury trial could make them effectively even moreso. So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to take neighborhood watches to the next level. This could result in needing fewer police officers, which could result in an effective loosening in the enforcement of other laws.

[Mikey]

So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to take neighborhood watches to the next level. This could result in needing fewer police officers, which could result in an effective loosening in the enforcement of other laws.

I almost get the impression that you thing this is a good thing. Allowing people like this to become a vigilante group - one with militia-type armament - is awful. It sure won't be long to go from what you describe above to one or more of the following:

a) someone is killed for dreadfully heinous alleged crimes like inadvertent trespassing, tagging graffiti, or jaywalking;

b) an innocent but accused person is killed, because vigilante groups like that have no need of such archaic concepts as trials;

c) someone is killed for the "crime" of being African-American, gay, Jewish, Episcopalian, an Eagles fan, or a native of somewhere other than Oklahoma.

[Monroe]

It would only be a good ting if the Vigilantes picked up names like 'Batman' and 'The Avengers'.

[sunnyside]

I almost get the impression that you thing this is a good thing. Allowing people like this to become a vigilante group - one with militia-type armament - is awful. It sure won't be long to go from what you describe above to one or more of the following:

a) someone is killed for dreadfully heinous alleged crimes like inadvertent trespassing, tagging graffiti, or jaywalking;

b) an innocent but accused person is killed, because vigilante groups like that have no need of such archaic concepts as trials;

c) someone is killed for the "crime" of being African-American, gay, Jewish, Episcopalian, an Eagles fan, or a native of somewhere other than Oklahoma.

I don't think anyone is proposing that they'd get some kinds of special rights, or be transported back to the 30s. Anything they do would have to fit within the actual law. Lynch mobs are right out, as is actually shooting unless they attempt to use deadly force on you.

It's just that the law there, as I understand it, currently allows you to do things like grab your gun, jump over the fence, and hold some criminals robbing your neighbors place at gunpoint until the police arrive. Along with a range of other "citizen arrest" type laws. It's just how some states roll. But such actions are bound in various ways, such as the seriousness of the crime that must be underway to take action, and a vulnerability to a civil lawsuit.

While such moves aren't common. There is some historical precident and it's quite positive
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

[Mikey]

Yeah, all that is very well said. However, once you group a few like-minded folks like this into a militia, that "bound by law" thing goes right out the window. Lynch mobs are a direct violation of law... interestingly enough, they still occurred.