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Israel to seek another 1b euros Holocaust in reparations from Germany

Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz will demand between 450 million to 1 billion euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of Jews forced into slave labor during the Holocaust, it emerged on Sunday.

Minister Steinitz will reportedly present German government with the demand on behalf of 30,000 Israeli survivors of forced labor in wartime ghettos, during a joint session scheduled to take place in early 2010 in Berlin.

Israeli officials estimate that according to a ghetto workers act passed by the German parliament in 2002, all of the 30,000 living forced labor survivors are entitled to a retroactive payment of approximately 15,000 euros each.

However, Finance Ministry officials say that according to the German government's calculations, the one-time payment is larger than that estimated by Israel, and reaches a total of 1 billion euros.

In addition to the one-time payment, the survivors are also entitled to a monthly allowance, which adds up to around 100 million euros a year.

In September, Germany's top court dismissed a claim yesterday for the return of land seized by the Nazis from its Jewish owner in 1933.

Jewish businessman Adolf Sommerfeld, who owned nearly 80 percent of a company building a housing estate in the Berlin suburb of Kleinmachnow, was beaten up and shot at by Nazi thugs and fled Germany in 1933, the year the Nazis came to power.

The Nazis later sold the homes to their occupants, who are now the owners. Seizures of property from Jews continued through the 1930s, culminating in the Holocaust.

Source

You have to admire their balls. 60 years after, their still playing the Holocaust Card. Man, I'd love for Germany to tell them to get fucked.

Ditto. The issue's been long resolved. Yeah, it was horrible and we're all sorry it happened, but modern Germany had nothing to do with it and thus has no responsibility to pay even more.

Most modern German's hate the Nazi regime as much as a the Jews (as a unified entity) do.

Why do they even care? After all this time, never mind that more non-jewish germans died then Jews total. Maybe they should go begging to Russia who did the same damn thing. Or France for that matter.

Germany should tell them to go sit in an oven.

Yeah. This generation should not pay.

I'm sorry, but they seem to be trying to replace the chip on their shoulder with a cash cow. Whilst I mourn for those that died and fully support the reperations that were payed after the war this is just too far and too long after to be bringing this sort of thing up now.

IanKennedy wrote:I'm sorry, but they seem to be trying to replace the chip on their shoulder with a cash cow. Whilst I mourn for those that died and fully support the reperations that were payed after the war this is just too far and too long after to be bringing this sort of thing up now.

It's important to see the distinction that this is Israel asking, not Judaism. Israel may be a Jewish state, but it is not the voice of global Judaism, much as it may think it is.

Deepcrush wrote:never mind that more non-jewish germans died then Jews total.

Patently false. If we're talking about Holocaust victims (which we are,) then approx. 6 million Jews were murdered. Approx. 7 million gentile Europeans were murdered, and that includes Czech, Polish, Russian, Galician, Hungarian, and Ukrainian Catholics as well as Romany. Gentile Germans murdered in the Holocaust number far fewer than that.

Doesn't mean Israel is within its rights, I'm just sayin'.

Deepcrush wrote:Germany should tell them to go sit in an oven.

Jokes are fine, dude, but that one is completely out of bounds. Do you have family that was incinerated alive? I do.

Patently false. If we're talking about Holocaust victims (which we are,) then approx. 6 million Jews were murdered. Approx. 7 million gentile Europeans were murdered, and that includes Czech, Polish, Russian, Galician, Hungarian, and Ukrainian Catholics as well as Romany. Gentile Germans murdered in the Holocaust number far fewer than that.

Doesn't mean Israel is within its rights, I'm just sayin'.

6 million Jews from Europe vs as many as 9 million Germans. So, not false at all. Made more so true by your numbers including the Russians. Who in WWII lost as many as 25 million people (depending on sources of course). Plus, I wasn't talking about the number of Germans killed due to the Holocaust, but due to the war.

Jokes are fine, dude, but that one is completely out of bounds. Do you have family that was incinerated alive? I do.

Been on fire myself. My Grandfather's brother died from a steel pour. Had a friend ground to death under a car. Another friend blown up. Next question?

If Israel wants to cry about the Holocaust then as far as I care the Germans have the right to throw it back in their faces. Its done and over, and it should stay that way.

I think the important thing here is to realize that this is not a claim fashioned out of thin air. The crucial portion of the article is the fact that the German Government put the law under which those seeking compensation are making their claim into place itself. It was not a court decisions or even something that was forced on Germany.

Specifically the law seems to me to be an attempt to pay pensions to those that worked for the German state. Since everyone who works for the German state is by law entitled to a pension this is simply a formalization of that process for those that were compelled to work in the ghetto's for little to no money. Essentially it seems to have closed a gap in the system because a means to compensate slave laborers was already in place, as well as a pension system for those workers making a full wage.

What was not happening was compensation for those who were paid in soup, food, and shelter. The law, which seems to be an outgrowth of a court ruling filed by a small group of individuals in 1997, simply states that these people being workers for the state during that time are entitled to pensions going forward and back pensions that they should have been paid.

The points about this generation paying for it are not really on target here. They are paying pensions for all German workers who are eligible and no longer work. The courts have rules that these people worked and therfore are eligible for pension payments. The onus to pay is on the current German workers just like it is on the current German workers to pay for everyone else drawing a pension.

If Germany does not wish to pay they can simply do away with their pension system but the payments to those who the courts have determined are eligible does not seem like cause for anger towards Israel which is simply presenting a claim on behalf of its citizens who are eligible to receive payments. It won't see any of that money, except for income taxes if Israel has such a thing.

Deepcrush wrote:Plus, I wasn't talking about the number of Germans killed due to the Holocaust, but due to the war.

Then that explains from where you got your figures... but is complete and totally not germane to the prior conversation.

Deepcrush wrote:Been on fire myself. My Grandfather's brother died from a steel pour. Had a friend ground to death under a car. Another friend blown up. Next question?

None of which speak to people being murdered by being forced into a kiln.

BigJKU316 wrote:*snip*

All well and good, but the following facts remain:

#1 - Monetary reparations cannot address what was done during the Holocaust.

#2 - While it may be within Germany's legality to ask for reparations, considering #1 above, Israel is still looking like an ass for asking.

15,000 Euros works out to 81,209.46 ILS, a pretty pathetic amount by any standard but the assertion that the Israeli government won't see any of this isn't exactly true. They'll get their cut through income taxes, sales tax, perhaps a capital gains tax analogue. I'm pretty sure that they'll get their pound of cellulose.

Mikey makes a good point, that even if the Israeli citizens are entitled to the cash (did Jews count as German citizens?) they come off as complete douchebags by asking. Especially when you look down the forum and find out that they've been harvesting their enemies organs.

Mikey wrote:
All well and good, but the following facts remain:

#1 - Monetary reparations cannot address what was done during the Holocaust.

#2 - While it may be within Germany's legality to ask for reparations, considering #1 above, Israel is still looking like an ass for asking.

1. These are not reparations for the Holocaust. That is just shoddy reporting. This is essentially a collection of past due social security benefits for a group of people that worked in Germany at one point and by German law are entitled to it just as anyone who worked in Germany would be. Saying it is reparations for the Holocaust is not accurate so whatever ones feelings on reparations they are not really of importance here.

2. While that is an opinion everyone is entitled to you are missing much of the backstory. If you look into German pension policy on forced workers (which is not what we are dealing with here exactly but it will be handled in the same manner) and those workers don't reside in Germany the exact nature of the payments are determined by a two-party agreement between Germany and the country in which you reside. Essentially Germany transfers the money to that country and they handle the distribution through their existing social welfare system.

So since this is a new program, much like the forced laborer program when it came into being, it is necessary for both nations to negotiate a pension agreement which will dictate how much money and when Germany makes avaliable to pay the pensions it is obligated to pay to those who are eligible. Because of that it is very much the business of Israel to negotiate such an agreement on the part of their citizens who are eligible so they can receive their benefits.

If you look into it a bit further you will see that these sort of agreements are negotiated between nations all the time. When a major law changes in one nation, such as is the case here, then new agreements have to be negotiated. It is silly to call Israel out for this. This is the first step for their citizens to be able to access the pensions they rightly earned under German law.

Cpl Kendall wrote:15,000 Euros works out to 81,209.46 ILS, a pretty pathetic amount by any standard but the assertion that the Israeli government won't see any of this isn't exactly true. They'll get their cut through income taxes, sales tax, perhaps a capital gains tax analogue. I'm pretty sure that they'll get their pound of cellulose.

Mikey makes a good point, that even if the Israeli citizens are entitled to the cash (did Jews count as German citizens?) they come off as complete douchebags by asking. Especially when you look down the forum and find out that they've been harvesting their enemies organs.

They have to ask. Every country has pension agreements to ensure the right governments pay for the right people and no one gets too much. See below for the US and Australian agreements with Germany. The US has similar agreements with 24 different nations. Simply put the Israeli government has to negotiate this as part of a pension/social security agreement between the two nations.

http://www.facs.gov.au/sa/international ... y_faq.aspx

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/internati ... rmany.html

Neato, never knew any of that. Objection withdrawn.