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CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:25 pm
by Aaron
CBC.CA
A soldier accused of shooting and killing his comrade in their tent in Afghanistan over two years ago testified Monday that "in retrospect" he realizes he had other options to pulling the trigger.

Last Friday, Cpl. Matthew Wilcox told a military court martial in Sydney, N.S., that he was acting in self-defence when he shot his friend and tentmate Cpl. Kevin Megeney on March 6, 2007.

He testified that he heard the sound of a pistol bolt sliding, turned slightly to see a barrel pointed at his back, and "instinctively" pivoted and fired a shot.

On Monday, military prosecutor Maj. Jason Samson pressed the 24-year-old reservist on whether a "reasonable person" would hesitate before shooting.

"If they had all of the facts now, yes, sir. But not at the time," replied Wilcox, who is from Glace Bay, N.S.

With several members of the Megeney and Wilcox families watching from the public gallery, the accused soldier said he realizes now there were other alternatives.

"In retrospect, I would have done things differently," he said.
Megeney simply 'reacted'

Wilcox said he could have fled or taken cover behind nearby metal lockers in the same period of time he had to shoot Megeney. But at the time, he said he felt threatened and simply "reacted."
Cpl. Kevin Megeney, 25, was fatally shot in his tent in Afghanistan. Cpl. Kevin Megeney, 25, was fatally shot in his tent in Afghanistan. (DND/Canadian Press)

Wilcox's defence team is arguing that under the Criminal Code, the soldier had a right to shoot Megeney. A portion of Section 34 of the code states a person can kill an "assailant" when there is "reasonable apprehension of death or grievous harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes."

But the prosecution attempted to chip away at Wilcox's assertion that he was acting in self-defence, suggesting the soldier had little to fear.

Samson asked if it was reasonable to assume that Megeney's gun wasn't loaded because military rules at the base in Kandahar require that off-duty soldiers unload their rifles and pistols.

Wilcox responded that he didn't know, "one way or another," if the Browning 9-mm pistol of his tentmate was loaded.

"I just know it [Megeney's pistol] was ready," he added.

Wilcox has pleaded not guilty to charges of manslaughter, criminal negligence causing death and negligent performance of a military duty in the death of Megeney, 25, of Stellarton, N.S.

The prosecution alleges that Wilcox and Megeney - described as close friends in Afghanistan - were playing a game of "quick draw" when the shooting happened, an accusation that Wilcox has denied.

Samson asked whether Megeney might have been checking his pistol to see if there was any ammunition in it.

Wilcox agreed that was possible, but added it was also "speculation."
I've been following this story for a while now and a few things stick out at me:

1. The Browning slide will not advance without a mag inserted. Usually you do that with an empty mag or stick your finger up the mag well and hit the release. So there was no immediate reason to open fire on the guy.

2. Wilcox apparently either had time to load his C-7/sidearm (the article doesn't mention what he used) and fire or had it loaded in camp which is a very big no-no.

3. Wilcox states that he didn't know for sure whether his tentmate's sidearm was loaded but states that it was "ready". Ready in the CF means "ready to fire".

I'm not a 100% sure on who's at fault here but I'm leaning heavily toward Wilcox and I fully admit that I'm biased against him because he's a Reservist.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:43 pm
by Tsukiyumi
I'm not really clear on the details here, but if someone racked a weapon and pointed it at my back, I would at least load and aim mine in return. How would you know whether the other guy had loaded his first? Maybe the guy was about to go Columbine. Run away? What's to stop him from just running after you?

This goes back to basic firearm safety 101: never point a weapon (loaded or not) at another person unless you intend to kill them. I'd put the blame squarely on the guy who aimed the weapon, though I suppose we only have Wilcox's word on that...

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:55 pm
by Sionnach Glic
Cpl Kendall wrote: 2. Wilcox apparently either had time to load his C-7/sidearm (the article doesn't mention what he used) and fire or had it loaded in camp which is a very big no-no.
Wouldn't this also mean he either had time to turn the safety off, or had it off already (which, presumably, would be an even bigger no-no than having it loaded)?

To be honest I'm rather skeptical about this guy's claims.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:03 pm
by Teaos
Isnt there a rule that you never point the barrel of a gun at something unless you want it dead even if its not loaded?

If thats the case I can understand the other guys reaction to seeing a gun pointed at him.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:20 pm
by Sionnach Glic
Aye, it was incredibly stupid to do that.

That said, I think it's safe to say that if that did happen (which we've no certainty of, we've only got the guy's word that his tentmate was aiming a gun at him), then shooting the guy is still one hell of an over-reaction. If I was in that situation I would have just assumed the guy was either being an idiot or screwing around.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:58 pm
by Aaron
Rochey wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote: 2. Wilcox apparently either had time to load his C-7/sidearm (the article doesn't mention what he used) and fire or had it loaded in camp which is a very big no-no.
Wouldn't this also mean he either had time to turn the safety off, or had it off already (which, presumably, would be an even bigger no-no than having it loaded)?

To be honest I'm rather skeptical about this guy's claims.
Yup.

I think I would have just asked if it was loaded or WTF he was doing.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:21 am
by Tsukiyumi
Rochey wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote: 2. Wilcox apparently either had time to load his C-7/sidearm (the article doesn't mention what he used) and fire or had it loaded in camp which is a very big no-no.
Wouldn't this also mean he either had time to turn the safety off, or had it off already (which, presumably, would be an even bigger no-no than having it loaded)?

To be honest I'm rather skeptical about this guy's claims.
Loading it and switching off the safety could be done in less than a second, if the mag was handy.

I'm only skeptical about whether or not the other guy aimed the gun at him in the first place.

As to his response, I certainly wouldn't waste any time asking the guy sh*t. Like I said, I would've at least racked mine, and aimed at him before I ordered him to the floor. Aiming a pistol at someone doesn't fall under "screwing around".

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:26 am
by Aaron
Tsukiyumi wrote: Loading it and switching off the safety could be done in less than a second, if the mag was handy.

I'm only skeptical about whether or not the other guy aimed the gun at him in the first place.

As to his response, I certainly wouldn't waste any time asking the guy sh*t. Like I said, I would've at least racked mine, and aimed at him before I ordered him to the floor. Aiming a pistol at someone doesn't fall under "screwing around".
:lol: We don't spend that much time on pistol drills dude. It's a back up.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:29 am
by Tsukiyumi
Cpl Kendall wrote: :lol: We don't spend that much time on pistol drills dude. It's a back up.
I'm sure if I had a rifle, I'd spend a bit less time practicing with the pistol, yes. :lol:

Still, if I can reload in a half-second with my eyes closed, I'm sure someone in the military could lock and load in a second without too much trouble.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:37 am
by Aaron
Tsukiyumi wrote:
I'm sure if I had a rifle, I'd spend a bit less time practicing with the pistol, yes. :lol:

Still, if I can reload in a half-second with my eyes closed, I'm sure someone in the military could lock and load in a second without too much trouble.
*shrug* I fired a sidearm all of twice in six years dude, one of them was an OPP service pistol. We seriously hardly ever use them, most of them are issued to drivers, DR's and MP's.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:42 am
by Tsukiyumi
Hmm. Well, that raises the question "Why did either of these guys have pistols on-base?" :?

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:44 am
by Aaron
Tsukiyumi wrote:Hmm. Well, that raises the question "Why did either of these guys have pistols on-base?" :?
Because their job would have required them to have one. They were infanteers so it's likely they weren't stuck in camp the whole tour, hell they may have just been in for a shower rotation.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:46 am
by Tsukiyumi
Well, the whole thing is a mess. Not quite as bad as that loony that tossed a grenade into a tent in Iraq, but still f*cked up.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:48 am
by Aaron
Tsukiyumi wrote:Well, the whole thing is a mess. Not quite as bad as that loony that tossed a grenade into a tent in Iraq, but still f*cked up.
Indeed, there seems to be more going on here then is in the news.

Re: CF Reservist Shot Tentmate In "Self Defense"

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:52 am
by Tsukiyumi
It's a dilemma. Since we only have the shooter's word for what happened, it's a tough choice: if he acted in self-defense, he shouldn't go to the stockade, but if he's lying, you might let a murderer walk free.

Sounds like a job for a battery of advanced lie detector tests.