www.ditl.org

I can't find a link to this story, but just watched it on TV this morning.

PETA is saying shame on the President for swatting and killing a fly...
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the stupidity.

EDIT: Here's a link.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD98SQ0606


What the article doesn't say is that they had a rally after the event against the death of the "little guy".

1) I'm impressed he managed it by hand. I think I've managed to do that once.
2) They should have shot everyone at that rally.

You know what's the stupidest thing? Obama just recently did an interview with NBC where they showed him going out to buy cheeseburgers (!) for his whole staff, but it's the swatting of one fly that warrants a press release.

Now, where were we?" Obama asked Harwood. Then he added: "That was pretty impressive, wasn't it? I got the sucker."

Ha! No remorse, that's the president I voted for.


Seriously, it's a freaking fly. I can't even begin to imagine how many of the things bite it every second of every day. I assure you, they are in no danger of being wiped out. And it was a humane death at least right, I doubt it lingered. Hell, do insects even feel pain? Are they smart enough to know fear, to worry about their own mortality?

Lighthawk wrote:Seriously, it's a freaking fly.

Don't tell PETA.

Lighthawk wrote:Now, where were we?" Obama asked Harwood. Then he added: "That was pretty impressive, wasn't it? I got the sucker."

Ha! No remorse, that's the president I voted for.


Seriously, it's a freaking fly. I can't even begin to imagine how many of the things bite it every second of every day. I assure you, they are in no danger of being wiped out. And it was a humane death at least right, I doubt it lingered. Hell, do insects even feel pain? Are they smart enough to know fear, to worry about their own mortality?

Their not sapient so the term I or my doesn't apply to them, but I'd imagine they can feel pain/fear, their survival mechanisms.


This is seriously the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

Give PETA time. I'm confident they can top it. Any day now they'll decry the bacterial holocaust the use of antibiotics is waging on our microbial brothers.

Lt. Staplic wrote: Their not sapient so the term I or my doesn't apply to them, but I'd imagine they can feel pain/fear, their survival mechanisms.

They could have survival mechanisms that aren't based off emotion. I'm pretty sure bacteria don't know fear. A step up from there, microorginisms. Do they know fear/pain, or is it just a bare basic nervous system(or their equivalent) responce? At what stage in complexity do emotions and pain actually start to appear in organisms?

This is seriously the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

Full agreement. I think PETA has lost site of what they should be about. Preventing animal suffering is one thing, but preventing animal deaths? Animals die every day, by the hundreds of millions, and mostly at the hands/paws/claws/ect of other animals. Humans are just one more animal killing other animals. Is PETA going out and cutting the tails off horses and cows to stop them from swatting flies? What gives a barn yard animals more right to smack down a pest than a human?

I can appreciate PETA for putting a stop to things like dog fights, but they really need to step back and look at the big picture of the natural world.

I don't know... I kind of agree with PETA. It was really uncalled for.

haha just kidding. That was an impressive move. I really wish PETA would stop bugging him. haha.

What's that? PETA's complaining and no one gives a shit? What a shock!

Really, this isn't even particularly stupid for them. It's about average.

Lighthawk wrote:They could have survival mechanisms that aren't based off emotion. I'm pretty sure bacteria don't know fear. A step up from there, microorginisms. Do they know fear/pain, or is it just a bare basic nervous system(or their equivalent) responce? At what stage in complexity do emotions and pain actually start to appear in organisms?

Obviously we've no way to be 100% certain, but I'd wager on fear being present in insects. "Fear", after all, is just the term we give our survival instincts. That subcincious little voice that tells us "this is dangerous and you should leave". I'd say insects feel it too, to a certain extent.
Of course, the fact that it was so quick meant the fly probably wouldn't have even realised what was happening.

Yep. Most, if not all, animals will exhibit fear - as used to indicate a set of behaviors. For a fear-based motivation, of course, you'd have to look at a sentient animal - such a motivation is based both on memory and transference. A fly isn't capable of that.

I suppose PETA isn't either, considering that they also lack sentience.

I believe you mean sapience, yes?

Rochey wrote:I believe you mean sapience, yes?

No, no, the average PETA member likely has the awareness of a tree my Irish friend.

Right. With the first example, I meant sentience - not necessarily the ability to think, but the ability to recall and process cognitive functions from an abstract... like our dogs, for example. We adopted my dog, and he was apparently abused prior; now, he can envision certain things as threat activities, even though there isn't an active threat present.

In the second, I was trying to not insult true sapient creatures by comparing them to PETA members.