www.ditl.org

Israel troops admit Gaza abuses
Israel frequently claims to possess the most moral army in the world

An Israeli military college has printed damning soldiers' accounts of the killing of civilians and vandalism during recent operations in Gaza.

One account tells of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom troops had told to leave their home.

Another speaker at the seminar described what he saw as the "cold blooded murder" of a Palestinian woman.

The army has defended its conduct during the Gaza offensive but said it would investigate the testimonies.

The Israeli army has said it will investigate the soldiers' accounts.

The testimonies were published by the military academy at Oranim College. Graduates of the academy, who had served in Gaza, were speaking to new recruits at a seminar.



The climate in general [was that] lives of Palestinians are much, much less important than the lives of our soldiers
Soldier testimony


"[The testimonies] conveyed an atmosphere in which one feels entitled to use unrestricted force against Palestinians," academy director Dany Zamir told public radio.

Heavy civilian casualties during the three-week operation which ended in the blockaded coastal strip on 18 January provoked an international outcry.

Correspondents say the testimonies undermine Israel's claims that troops took care to protect non-combatants and accusations that Hamas militants were responsible for putting civilians into harm's way.

'Less important'

The Palestinian woman and two of her children were allegedly shot after they misunderstood instructions about which way to walk having been ordered out of their home by troops.

"The climate in general... I don't know how to describe it.... the lives of Palestinians, let's say, are much, much less important than the lives of our soldiers," an infantry squad leader is quoted saying.

In another cited case, a commander ordered troops to kill an elderly woman walking on a road, even though she was easily identifiable and clearly not a threat.

Testimonies, which were given by combat pilots and infantry soldiers, also included allegations of unnecessary destruction of Palestinian property.

"We would throw everything out of the windows to make room and order. Everything... Refrigerators, plates, furniture. The order was to throw all of the house's contents outside," a soldier said.

One non-commissioned officer related at the seminar that an old woman crossing a main road was shot by soldiers.

"I don't know whether she was suspicious, not suspicious, I don't know her story I do know that my officer sent people to the roof in order to take her out It was cold-blooded murder," he said.

The transcript of the session for the college's Yitzhak Rabin pre-military course, which was held last month, appeared in a newsletter published by the academy.

Israeli human rights groups have criticised the military for failing to properly investigate violations of the laws of war in Gaza despite plenty of evidence of possible war crimes.

'Moral army'

The soldiers' testimonies also reportedly told of an unusually high intervention by military and non-military rabbis, who circulated pamphlets describing the war in religious terminology.

"All the articles had one clear message," one soldier said. "We are the people of Israel, we arrived in the country almost by miracle, now we need to fight to uproot the gentiles who interfere with re-conquering the Holy Land."

"Many soldiers' feelings were that this was a war of religion," he added.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak told Israel Radio that the findings would be examined seriously.

"I still say we have the most moral army in the world. Of course there may be exceptions but I have absolutely no doubt this will be inspected on a case-by-case basis," he said.

Medical authorities say more than 1,300 Palestinians were killed during Israel's 22-day operation, including some 440 children, 110 women, and dozens of elderly people.

The stated aim was to curb rocket and mortar fire by militants from Gaza. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians were killed.

Anyone wanna bet that these guys will get off scott-free?

Source?

No big secret that I don't like Israel but that sounds like propaganda.

Sorry, my mistake. The source is BBC News. I'd say they're pretty reliable.

As a child my sympathies were always with Israel, and I've often been disgusted with how the Palestinians have acted, but in recent years I've really been put off by Israeli policies. I'm increasingly seeing an aggressively colonialist state dominated by hawks and fundamentalists. Yes, your opponents may be using (primitive) terror tactics, but that doesn't excuse squeezing their population onto Bantustans and blasting them with military overkill.

What these troops have been reported doing is completely uncoscionable - but Lazar, how does that mean that trying to protect your own civilians in land that you won in a defensive war is "colonialism?"

I don't have the link right here, but sooner or late I'll find a story written by a prominent, and patriotic, Israeli Muslim. Nothing to do with the heinous acts reported in this story, but everybody seems to think that Israel shoulders 100% of the blame for what's going on there, rather than their fair 50%, simply because they have an army - instead of civilian-appearing terrorist cells. At least the IDF doesn't threaten its own populace, like Hamas does; and these Israeli soldiers may have done wrong, but at least the IDFG doesn't have a standing policy of targetting civilians, like Hamas does.

Mikey wrote:What these troops have been reported doing is completely uncoscionable - but Lazar, how does that mean that trying to protect your own civilians in land that you won in a defensive war is "colonialism?"

I'm talking about the settlements.

The settlements were mostly built when the Gaza Strip and West Bank were fully Israeli territory, won in a war started by six Arab nations, and then given back as a gesture of goodwill.

Israel already received the lion's share of the Palestine Mandate in 1949, and the only justification for the settlements seems to be religious fundamentalism, which I despise. The settlements are an unnecessary imposition an already impoverished population, and they compromise the validity of any future Palestinian state. There's a reason why they evacuated the settlements in Gaza, and they should do the same thing in the West Bank. If these territories were "fully Israeli territory", then the residents there would have the rights of Israeli citizens.

Lazar wrote:Israel already received the lion's share of the Palestine Mandate in 1949, and the only justification for the settlements seems to be religious fundamentalism, which I despise. The settlements are an unnecessary imposition an already impoverished population, and they compromise the validity of any future Palestinian state. There's a reason why they evacuated the settlements in Gaza, and they should do the same thing in the West Bank. If these territories were "fully Israeli territory", then the residents there would have the rights of Israeli citizens.

You're right - Israel should never have given an authority over that land to the Palestinians at all. If the Arabs didn't want to lose that land they had two choices:
#1) don't start a war; or,
#2) do better at it.

Mikey wrote:You're right - Israel should never have given an authority over that land to the Palestinians at all.

That's not what I said.

If the Arabs didn't want to lose that land they had two choices:
#1) don't start a war; or,
#2) do better at it.

I'm not trying to defend the actions of Arab states or Palestinian terrorists - what I'm saying is that Israel is treating the territories like colonies and collectively punishing the population there. It's disingenuous to express support for a two state solution while acquiring all available land and fragmenting the place with colonial settlements, rooted in some bullshit biblical fundamentalism no less.

Agreed about the idiocy of fundamentalism - although, to be fair the claims from both sides are rooted in that fundamentalism. As far as punishing the civilians there, I repeat that Hamas is far worse to the Palestinian civilian populace than the Israeli government is.

*EDIT* Here's what I was looking for...

> Lost in the blur of slogans
> by Ishmael Khaldi
> March 4, 2009
> San Francisco Chronicle
>
> For those who haven't heard, the first week in March has been
> designated as Israel Apartheid Week by activists who are either ill
> intentioned or misinformed. On American campuses, organizing committees
> are planning happenings to once again castigate Israel as the lone
> responsible party for all that maligns the Middle East.
>
> Last year, at UC Berkeley, I had the opportunity to "dialogue" with
> some of the organizers of these events. My perspective is unique, both
> as the vice consul for Israel in San Francisco, and as a Bedouin and the
> highest-ranking Muslim representing Israel in the United States. I
> was born into a Bedouin tribe in Northern Israel, one of 11 children,
> and began life as shepherd living in our family tent. I went on to serve
> in the Israeli border police, and later earned a master's degree in
> political science from Tel Aviv University before joining the Israel
> Foreign Ministry.
>
>
> I am a proud Israeli - along with many other non-Jewish Israelis such
> as Druze, Bahai, Bedouin, Christians and Muslims, who live in one of the
> most culturally diversified societies and the only true democracy in the
> Middle East. Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let
> us deal honestly. By any yardstick you choose - educational
> opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of
> speech and assembly, legislative representation - Israel's minorities
> fare far better than any other country in the Middle East.
>
> So, I would like to share the following with organizers of Israel
> Apartheid week, for those of them who are open to dialogue and not
> blinded by a hateful ideology:
>
> You are part of the problem, not part of the solution: If you are
> really idealistic and committed to a better world, stop with the false
> rhetoric. We need moderate people to come together in good faith to help
> find the path to relieve the human suffering on both sides of the
> Israel-Palestinian conflict. Vilification and false labeling is a blind
> alley that is unjust and takes us nowhere..
>
> You deny Israel the fundamental right of every society to defend
> itself: You condemn Israel for building a security barrier to protect
> its citizens from suicide bombers and for striking at buildings from
> which missiles are launched at its cities - but you never offer an
> alternative. Aren't you practicing yourself a deep form of racism by
> denying an entire society the right to defend itself?
>
> Your criticism is willfully hypocritical: Do Israel's Arab citizens
> suffer from disadvantage? You better believe it. Do African Americans 10
> minutes from the Berkeley campus suffer from disadvantage - you better
> believe it, too. So should we launch a Berkeley Apartheid Week, or
> should we seek real ways to better our societies and make opportunity
> more available.
>
> You are betraying the moderate Muslims and Jews who are working to
> achieve peace: Your radicalism is undermining the forces for peace in
> Israel and in the Palestinian territories. We are working hard to move
> toward a peace agreement that recognizes the legitimate rights of both
> Israel and the Palestinian people, and you are tearing down by falsely
> vilifying one side.
>
> To the organizers of Israel Apartheid Week I would like to say:
>
> If Israel were an apartheid state, I would not have been appointed
> here, nor would I have chosen to take upon myself this duty. There are
> many Arabs, both within Israel and in the Palestinian territories who
> have taken great courage to walk the path of peace. You should stand
> with us, rather than against us.
>
> Ishmael Khaldi is deputy consul general of Israel for the Pacific
> Northwest.
>
> This article appeared on page A - 11 of the San Francisco Chronicle

Both the Palestinians and the Israelis are both at fault here. I've no doubts that if their situations were reversed, we'd hear the same crap coming out of there.

The fact is, that entire region is FUBAR. The edjits that thought it would be a good idea to set up an Israeli nation in the middle of a region that hated them better have gotten a boot up the arse for that decision.