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France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:19 pm
by Sionnach Glic
France ends four-decade Nato rift
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has announced his country is to return to Nato's military command, reversing four decades of self-imposed exile.
Mr Sarkozy confirmed the decision in a speech to defence experts at the Ecole Militaire staff college in Paris.
President Charles de Gaulle pulled France out of Nato's integrated military command in 1966, saying it undermined France's sovereignty.
Critics say France will now be no more than "a clone of Great Britain".
But Mr Sarkozy said there was no sense in France - a founder member of Nato - having no say in the organisation's decisions on military strategy.
"This rapprochement with Nato ensures our national independence," said Mr Sarkozy. "To distance ourselves would limit our independence and our room for manoeuvre."
"We have to be progressive," he said. "A solitary nation is a nation that has no influence whatsoever."
"We need strong diplomacy, a strong defence and a strong Europe."
He said Nato remained a central element of France's security and defence policies, but stressed that he would not give up the country's independent nuclear deterrent.
Mr Sarkozy is expected to formalise the move with a letter to Nato before the alliance celebrates its 60th anniversary next month with a summit in the French city of Strasbourg.
Military action
Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer warmly welcomed Mr Sarkozy's announcement.
"[France's] full participation in all the civil and military decision-making and planning processes cannot but strengthen the alliance further," he said.
Correspondents say France's "independence" from Nato is dearly treasured by many French, and Mr Sarkozy's move has provoked a furore among those who fear it will now have to bow to US dominance.
The great fear, says the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby in Paris, is that France will now be at the beck and call of the US, and may well be dragged into conflicts in which it did not want to be involved.
"Nothing today justifies returning to Nato military command," said the leader of the opposition Socialists, Martine Aubry.
"There's no hurry, no fundamental need, except for this Atlanticism that's becoming an ideology."
But Defence Minister Herve Morin rejected claims France would now be forced to go along with the US on issues like the war with Iraq, which it vehemently opposed.
Germany, he noted, has remained fully integrated in Nato yet opposed the war.
Renewing France's relations with Nato "will benefit the alliance, benefit Europe and benefit France", Mr Morin said. "It will be done without calling into question the independence of France."
Indeed, it would allow France to take a greater role in shaping military strategy, he argued.
Javier Solana, the European Union's foreign policy chief, said France's re-entry into NATO would benefit security in Europe.
"I think it's very important that France returns to the alliance completely," he said.
"I think for those who believe, as myself, that there is a need of having a capacity, a military capacity, within the European Union, it's a very important decision that France is going to take."
While in 1966 France withdrew from Nato's decision-making core, its nuclear weapons structure and planning committee, it never left the alliance itself.
Indeed, it has been one of the most active members, supplying troops under allied command in Bosnia, Kosovo and in Afghanistan, where it has suffered significant losses.
Analysts say France has actually been gradually moving closer to the heart of Nato since the end of the Cold War.
Interesting. [insert obligatory French military joke here]
One thing, though. Is NATO really relevant any more? Does it still have a purpose? I can't exactly see Russia trying to take over Europe any more, and China (the only other real threat) isn't exactly going to be starting any trouble either.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:21 pm
by Aaron
Yeah, it is. It provides a body of capable troops (the best in the world) that can be used in places like Afghanistan. Troops that have to meet certain equipment and training standards.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:22 pm
by Sionnach Glic
Could such a thing not just be organised without NATO, though? Surely the same countries would supply the same quantities of troops anyway. Or does NATO membership mean being obliged to send troops to any such conflicts?
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:47 pm
by Aaron
Rochey wrote:Could such a thing not just be organised without NATO, though? Surely the same countries would supply the same quantities of troops anyway. Or does NATO membership mean being obliged to send troops to any such conflicts?
NATO members are obligated to commit troops to Afghanistan (NATO invoked Article 5 after 9/11) but unless that article is invoked then it's not mandatory but most NATO nations have similar agendas abroad and tend to commit troops to various joint operations. As for if it could be done with a different organization; of course it could but why bother? NATO is already here and already has all the kit and training type classified anyways. All this would do is create another bureaucracy and cost a gigillion dollars to set up. Don't fix what isn't broken (kick out those useless Eastern European nations though).
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:08 pm
by Mikey
NATO also provides (in theory

) a unified command structure which wouldn't exist if each individual nation simply chose to send its own troops, without the aegis of a single organization. In order to do that without NATO, you'd just end up with NATO by a different name.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:25 pm
by Captain Seafort
The integrated command structure (which is what the French are rejoining - they never left NATO itself) is the key to the whole thing. Without that, the common weapons, ammunition, fuel, designations, etc are just window dressing. The command structure, regarding both the ability to tag other nationalities on to national formations, and to deploy true multinational formations like the ARRC, is what makes NATO so effective (at least once it gets going).
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:32 pm
by Mikey
Seafort - I hope you realize that I was thinking specifically of you when I put the "in theory" disclaimer in my last post.

Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:33 pm
by Monroe
I always thought a lot of problems with Russia would be solved if they were given provisional status with NATO and direct NATO towards rogue nations and China.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:37 pm
by Aaron
Monroe wrote:I always thought a lot of problems with Russia would be solved if they were given provisional status with NATO and direct NATO towards rogue nations and China.
Do they want to join? Though I'm a little skeptical of Russia actually being a problem, what have they done recently that counts?
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:43 pm
by Sionnach Glic
What would happen if Russia tried to join NATO? Would they be allowed, or would their membership attempt be vetoed? Given that NATO was original set up to combat Russian expansionism, that'd be one hell of an ironic move.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:48 pm
by Aaron
Rochey wrote:What would happen if Russia tried to join NATO? Would they be allowed, or would their membership attempt be vetoed? Given that NATO was original set up to combat Russian expansionism, that'd be one hell of an ironic move.
Considering that non of their kit or standards meet NATO requirements in the least, they'd have to spend tonnes of cash to upgrade their military. Just like Poland and the other Eastern European nations that joined. So really the only good that comes out of this is for us, who now get to sell over-priced weapons to Russia and considering that Russia often works at odds with Western policy, I doubt their in any hurry to join up.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:24 am
by Mikey
Besides, they don't want to. With Putin still pulling Medvedev's strings, does the same guy who dummied up the invasion of Ukraine and threw a tantrum about US anti-ICBM sites being in Europe seem like he wants to play in our sandbox?
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:13 am
by Monroe
I think the offer would be good. In the fine print it can say they have to update their military and what not.
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:34 am
by Deepcrush
France joining NATO. Does that mean that our troops on deployment will have chefs instead of cooks?
Re: France to rejoin NATO
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:45 am
by Monroe
Deepcrush wrote:France joining NATO. Does that mean that our troops on deployment will have chefs instead of cooks?
Well our troops won't have a shortage of white linen now at any case.