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I just watched the DS9 episode "Crossover" in which Major Kira and Doctor Bashir find themselves in the same mirror universe that Kirk visited back in the 23rd century. I also saw that particular episode of TOS. Now, from my understanding of how other universes function in the Trek series, when the good Kirk went through the transporter to the mirror universe, wouldn't, in fact, a lot more than one Kirk have appeared at the same time from other universes? I mean, I doubt that mission and the ionic storms (or whatever they were) were limited to just those two universes. Am I missing something?

Apparently we are supposed to believe our universe and the Bizaro universe are strongly linked for some reason, thus the often cross overs.

Possibly... But it also stands to reason that there wouldn't only be one universe that's linked to ours. I don't know... I guess I would've expected something more along the lines of "Parallels" to happen every time an event occurred between the mirror universe and our own (you know, when the thousand Enterprise-D's appeared).

I think the cause of that particular shift was the almost impossible coincidence of the two ships (and the four crewmembers) being in exactly the same place in their respective universes, and the transports being triggered at the same time. As for dozens of other Kirks turning up, why would they? It was a strict swap between "the" mirror universe and the primary universe. It's the only way that could have happened without violating conservation of energy (how they managed it in DS9 I'm not sure).

Because, if each universe branches off from the decisions we make, then it stands to reason that a lot more than two universes would have had identical situations to the mirror universe and our universe when the Kirks switched places.

I think we're supposed to believe that since this is the "mirror" of our universe we're somehow linked more with this one than with others.

Sanehouse wrote:Because, if each universe branches off from the decisions we make, then it stands to reason that a lot more than two universes would have had identical situations to the mirror universe and our universe when the Kirks switched places.

So why would extra Kirks suddenly appear? The crossover happened at the moment of transport, when everything and everyone associated with said transport was precisely lined up. What happened in various universes before and after that moment was irrelevent.

I get what Sanehouse is saying, but here's the thing - while there may well have been an infinite number of crossovers, each one would have happened between a particular pair of universes. We only saw the one crossover because that was the only one involoving the "real" 'Trek universe. There's no reason to think that all the crossovers would have transposed "their" Kirks into "our" one universe.

Mikey wrote:I get what Sanehouse is saying, but here's the thing - while there may well have been an infinite number of crossovers, each one would have happened between a particular pair of universes. We only saw the one crossover because that was the only one involoving the "real" 'Trek universe. There's no reason to think that all the crossovers would have transposed "their" Kirks into "our" one universe.

As soon as you assume an infinite number of universes things get weird, because not only can anything happen, but in some universe every possible thing does happen, and every possible variation of that thing happens in some other universe. In fact because the subset of an infinite number is also an inginite number, then there are an infinite number of universes where any given thing will happen, in infinite different ways.

If travel between these universes is possible, this is problematic. Because it means there are an infinite number of universes where they develop a method of universe jumping. And in an infinite number of those, some alternate version of Kirk acquires said method. And in an infinite number of those, he uses it. And in an infinite number of those, the universe he travels to is ours. And of that infinite number of Kirks, and infinite subset of them will come right HERE, NOW!!!!!

*looks around nervously*

The fact that this does not happen means that there are only a limited number of other universes... possibly even none of them at all. Or that travel between them is and always will be impossible in all universes.

One thing that's struck me about the Mirror Universe is how totally improbable it is if you just take it was one of infinite universes. I mean, once things have changed, the odds quickly become quite low that the same people would hook up at the same time, and even if they do, the odds of any sexual coupling producing one particular person have got to be infinitesimal. And then the odds that they'd be put in the same situations, on top of that. I have seen it suggested that, rather than being some other random universe, it's inextricably bound to ours in some way, so that things follow a related path but with mirrored characteristics.

The odds are tiny that it would mirror ours, but the chance is there, and since there is an infinite number it is thus guaranteed it would exist.

And maybe its the fact that it is our most direct mirror that our universe and theres seem to be so linked.

GrahamKennedy wrote:

Mikey wrote:I get what Sanehouse is saying, but here's the thing - while there may well have been an infinite number of crossovers, each one would have happened between a particular pair of universes. We only saw the one crossover because that was the only one involoving the "real" 'Trek universe. There's no reason to think that all the crossovers would have transposed "their" Kirks into "our" one universe.

As soon as you assume an infinite number of universes things get weird, because not only can anything happen, but in some universe every possible thing does happen, and every possible variation of that thing happens in some other universe. In fact because the subset of an infinite number is also an inginite number, then there are an infinite number of universes where any given thing will happen, in infinite different ways.

If travel between these universes is possible, this is problematic. Because it means there are an infinite number of universes where they develop a method of universe jumping. And in an infinite number of those, some alternate version of Kirk acquires said method. And in an infinite number of those, he uses it. And in an infinite number of those, the universe he travels to is ours. And of that infinite number of Kirks, and infinite subset of them will come right HERE, NOW!!!!!

*looks around nervously*

The fact that this does not happen means that there are only a limited number of other universes... possibly even none of them at all. Or that travel between them is and always will be impossible in all universes.

I've always thoughbt of it that, to my mind, your mind... it's an infinte number. It's too lareg for us to truly comprehend.

To the Q, the Beyonder... it's finite, because they can comprehend.

I also mliken each universe to be like a bag of sand. There are only so many combinations of matter and energy you can produce.

I'll admit my thinking's simple, but it helps me stay sane.

The real answer to all those problems is, of course:

Striker's right - to our pitiful little human brains, there really is no practical difference between "infinite" and "an amazingly huge number." The fact that all "crossovers" we've seen occur between "our" universe and the one particular "mirror" universe leads one ot believe that there are a far smaller number f universes out theres, and/or the MU is, indeed, linked in a special way to our own.

Thanks, Mikey. For me, though, the crossing over between that one universe isn't proof of or evidence or whatever word you'd like to use that there's a small number of them out there. Just... coincidence. Another factor in the quantum reality theory. All things are possible, after all.

*Goes to search for the Sailor Moon universe*