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"Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:34 pm
by Tsukiyumi
A stimulus provision that bans the purchase of foreign construction materials for public works projects gets jeers from economists and European trade interests.
A debate is brewing at home and abroad over an economic stimulus measure that would require materials used in the program's infrastructure projects to be purchased from American companies.
In the $819 billion House bill passed Wednesday, the so-called "Buy American" provision would, with some notable exceptions, ensure that only U.S.-produced iron and steel be used for construction. It expands on a 76-year-old federal law. The Senate, which is likely to take up stimulus next week, would go even further, effectively requiring that any products and equipment be American-made.
"The Buy American provision will help stimulate our own economy," Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., who wrote the provision, told CNNMoney. "When taxpayer dollars are used, we should urge that money to support the things produced here at home."
The plan is already drawing opposition. The European Commission on Thursday said it might challenge such a move if it were signed into law. The proposal also appears to fly in the face of a G-20 agreement reached in November, when world leaders decided not to raise new trade barriers in 2009.
Furthermore, many economists argue that a Buy American provision could actually backfire, slowing economic growth instead of helping expand the American job market.
"It's not a good time to initiate protectionist measures in any shape or form," said Kurt Karl, head of economic research at Swiss Re. "It hurts growth, because if you force one side to go with domestic production only, then that precludes them from getting less expensive materials from overseas."
The economy is already reeling, and will soon enter the 15th month of a recession. Economists expect a Commerce Department report to show the U.S. economy shrank by 5.4% in the fourth quarter, the biggest decline in 26 years. But some think holding back trade could exacerbate the problem.
A major drop in trade could cause a 1% drop in gross domestic product, according to Karl.
"We believe it invites reciprocal restrictions on U.S. exports," said Peter O'Toole, a spokesman for General Electric, which gets half its of revenue from abroad. "When you take competition out, it drives prices up. We're in a globalized world - we can't turn back the clock."
Previous efforts have misfired. For instance, from 2001 to 2003, the Bush administration imposed several so-called "safeguard" tariffs on certain steel products from various foreign countries in an attempt to prevent U.S. steel mills from closing.
Foreign steel makers found other markets during that span, namely China and Middle Eastern countries. When U.S. demand for steel heated up again in 2004, steel prices skyrocketed by 48% in a year, according to the Labor Department.
Also, Buy American would set a bad precedent, say many experts, arguing that protectionist ideology of the pre-Great Depression era exacerbated the economic calamity of the 1930s.
"In the Depression, we had anti-trade policies that aggravated the global recession," said Karl. "It's not a good idea from an economic or stability view, but politically, many congressmen still see it as appealing."
Safeguards to Protect Taxpayers, Growth
A host of politicians believe the Buy American provisions have appropriate safeguards to ensure stimulus spending is not wasted on expensive materials and the U.S. economy does not suffer long-term consequences.
For instance, the bills both stipulate that if construction costs would rise by 25% or more due to the purchase of American-made materials, contractors could receive a waiver to purchase foreign materials. The bills also allow for a waiver if buying American is not in the best interest of the economy or taxpayers.
"There is a broad public interest waiver, that ensures that if something is impractical or impossible, the administration can waive it easily," said Dorgan. "But to the extent we can, if we're going to use steel and other construction products, we want to buy ones that are manufactured here."
Rep. Peter Visclosky, D-Ind., who introduced the House's Buy American amendment that won unanimous support, did not believe that the mistakes of the Great Depression applied to this case.
"It's not protectionist - there are no tariffs or barriers being created," said a Visclosky spokesman. "It's about the U.S. steel industry running at or below 45% capacity, and the objective is creating jobs."
Dorgan also rejected the notion that the stipulation might cause an international showdown, arguing that the World Trade Organization does not regulate federal grant programs like those included in the stimulus bill, should it pass.
In the end, Dorgan said his support for the bill comes down to fulfilling President Obama's promise of creating up to 4 million American jobs.
"We face an emergency situation here - the country needs to put people back to work," Dorgan added. "If I'm going to be told that buying American goods hurts the economy, then I'm sorry, we have a disagreement on that."
Source
I don't see the issue here. There's a provision that allows for foreign purchases if American materials are too expensive. To me, it sounds like another case of people saying "But,
we wanted that money!"
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:36 pm
by Sionnach Glic
It's a case of both the US and Canada trying to prop up their own economies. The US wants its people and companies to buy US products, which will help their economy. Canada wants the US to buy their products, which will help their economy.
It's just a matter of both looking out for their own interests.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:37 pm
by Tsukiyumi
Rochey wrote:...It's just a matter of both looking out for their own interests.
Well, if we don't, who will?
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:38 pm
by Sionnach Glic
Exactly. The US is under no obligation to buy Canadian goods. It's doing nothing wrong in this.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:41 pm
by Teaos
Its retarded. No country can survive by themselves now, we're to globalised.
If the rest of the world goes down it WILL take america with it.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:42 pm
by Aaron
Rochey wrote:Exactly. The US is under no obligation to buy Canadian goods. It's doing nothing wrong in this.
Well, yes they are. NAFTA was all about integrating the economies, if they shit all over that then they lose guarenteed access to Canada's energy supplys (oil, NG and electricity) which is currently propping up a good portion of their infrastructure because they couldn't be arsed to upgrade. Besides cross border trade runs into billions of dollars, forcing people to buy American or buy Canadian could destroy a good portion of the economy.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:50 pm
by Captain Seafort
Tsukiyumi wrote:I don't see the issue here. There's a provision that allows for foreign purchases if American materials are too expensive. To me, it sounds like another case of people saying "But, we wanted that money!"
The issue is that the legislation violates a fundamental principle of free trade; that a company should have the right to purchase the goods that give it the best value for money, and allow it to be as competitive as possible. Plus there's the fact that, as the bloke from GE pointed out, this will inevitably damage the US economy when the rest of the world imposes reciprocal tariffs. It will also make things a lot more expensive for Americans, since the legislation states that companies will only be allowed to buy non-US goods if US goods would increase the overall price of a given project by
over 25%. It is, quite frankly, idiotic, and while I'll withold judgement until the full details come out (since the idiocy is as likely to have come from Congress as from the White House), it's suspiciously reminiscent of Obama's anti-free-trade campaigning - one of the main reasons I was in favour of McCain winning the election.
Rochey wrote:Exactly. The US is under no obligation to buy Canadian goods. It's doing nothing wrong in this.
Those are two different issues. If a US company doesn't want to buy Canadian goods, afir enough, that's there decision. This legislation would, however,
prohibit them from buying Canadian goods, whether they wanted to or not. There's a big difference between the two.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:58 pm
by SteveK
This is just a bad idea. Increasing the cost of the projects means that less gets done, which is a bad deal for us taxpayers.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:31 pm
by Monroe
I say buy American. Canada can do their own infrastructure project.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:35 pm
by Teaos
Ah but your going to need Canadian oil to help you burn all these bridges.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:35 pm
by Captain Seafort
Monroe wrote:I say buy American.
If you want to, fair enough, that's your decision. Not your government's.
Canada can do their own infrastructure project.
The issue isn't with Canada doing it's own infrastructure project, it's with how much you're going to pay for yours, thanks to your government's idiocy.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:39 pm
by Aaron
Monroe wrote:I say buy American.
Your free to do as you like.
Canada can do their own infrastructure project.
Our infrastructure is actually in decent shape, mostly because our horrbile weather doesn't allow us to neglect things to the extent America can. I am curious as to how you intend your nation to power this project and acquire materials for it without paying over what it could now, protectionism is going to drive the cost of all the materials up and thanks to the embrace of the service culture, America is not in a great position to supply itself with a gajillion tonnes of steel.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:12 am
by Sionnach Glic
Well, yes they are. NAFTA was all about integrating the economies, if they s**t all over that then they lose guarenteed access to Canada's energy supplys (oil, NG and electricity) which is currently propping up a good portion of their infrastructure because they couldn't be arsed to upgrade. Besides cross border trade runs into billions of dollars, forcing people to buy American or buy Canadian could destroy a good portion of the economy.
Those are two different issues. If a US company doesn't want to buy Canadian goods, afir enough, that's there decision. This legislation would, however, prohibit them from buying Canadian goods, whether they wanted to or not. There's a big difference between the two.
Ah, I see. In that case, there's going to be some problems then.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:17 am
by Aaron
Rochey wrote:
Ah, I see. In that case, there's going to be some problems then.
Indeed, the issue is far more complicated than most people think. For an example of how integrated things are you need look no further than the auto industry, in which recent shutdowns of factories in the US caused shutdowns of Canadian engine and parts plants that US companies use in their vehicles.
Edit: You can also take a guess at what will happen to Mexico, the third part of NAFTA. Congrats, you just doubled your illegal immigration problem.
Re: "Buy American" Provision Meets Opposition Abroad
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:29 am
by Monroe
Okay so I can buy American. If I owned a company they could choose to buy American. If I wanted something built I could choose to tell the manufacturer that for me to purchase it it has to be American. But our government can't tell their contractors that same thing?
America comes first in my book. If America lacks the required infrastructure to keep up with supply then they can build more factories and put more people in the payroll. Suddenly America isn't as debited to other nations anymore. Suddenly the service part of the economy isn't swallowing up the primary and secondary sectors. Suddenly jobs are in demand by employers instead of just workers.
Does it violate NAFTA? No because it is not leveling a tax on goods from Canada. Its downright boycotting them. Is it fair for Canada? No, but tough titties. Apply for statehood already if you want a say in our government.