Russia in Nuclear Threat to Poland

[Granitehewer]

From The TimesAugust 16, 2008 Catherine Philp and Tony Halpin in Tbilisi
Russia threatened Poland with a nuclear strike yesterday as the ripples of the Caucasus conflict spread through Europe and pitched West against East along new borders.

In a chilling echo of the Cold War, Russia gave warning that Poland was "exposing itself to a strike - 100 per cent" after signing a deal with the US to set up a missile shield on Polish soil.

The threat, the strongest since the fall of the Soviet Union, came as President Saakashvili of Georgia was forced to accept defeat as he signed a truce giving the Russian Army the right to patrol Georgian soil.

General Anatoli Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the general staff in Moscow, said that Russian military doctrine sanctioned the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them", as Poland had done in signing the deal.
At a tense press conference with Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, President Medvedev of Russia attacked the timing of the deal, saying that it exposed the "fairytale" that the shield was a defence against rogue states. "The deployment of new antimissile forces has as its aim the Russian Federation," he said.

Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, had flown to Tbilisi, while Mrs Merkel flew to Sochi to press for an end to the conflict that began last week.

It was a day of intense diplomacy, high tension and raw emotion. Dr Rice was visibly uncomfortable sharing a podium with a reluctant Mr Saakashvili, who gambled and lost when he sent his troops to put down pro-Russian separatists in South Ossetia, provoking a full-scale Russian invasion. Mr Saakashvili came close to tears as he vowed that he would "never, ever surrender" in the show-down with Russia. He accused his Western allies of inviting Moscow's aggression by denying Georgia a foot on the road to Nato membership last April. "We told the world this is about starting an invasion," he said. "We screamed to the world: stop it."

Dr Rice's visit was a show of support for Georgia's pro-Western Government after President Bush vowed not to cast aside his ally in the face of Russian "bullying and intimidation".

She condemned Moscow for not honouring its verbal promise to halt military operations and called on Mr Medvedev to effect an immediate withdrawal. "This must take place and take place now," she said. "This is not an agreement about the future of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is about getting Russian troops out."

She said that Russia's actions called into question what role it really planned to play in international politics.

Earlier in the day, Reuters reported that a Russian military convoy had advanced to within 30 miles of Tbilisi from the Russian-occupied town of Gori inside Georgia proper.

President Bush said in his weekly radio address that Russia's invasion of Georgia was "completely unacceptable to the free nations of the world".

[Sionnach Glic]

Am I the only one that really wants the US government to shut up about Georgia? The rampant hypocrisy is sickening.

[Granitehewer]

Indeed, american interference in the americas for example, has lead to death squads and black bag operations, i love all the americans i've met, but republican political declarations are often too liberte,egalite,fraternite for me and rather diametrically opposed to the nationstates,regimes,juntas and organisations that they overtly and covertly lend political and material support to, in fine examples of industrioeconomic postcolonialism.
The US Army School of the Americas(Georgia), was accused by the UN of having trained "500 of the worst human rights abusers in the hemisphere" yet that was snuffed under the carpet, and we all have an almost united federation planets whitewashed view of their governments now thanks to hollywood and PR.

[Teaos]

How the Fu*k did America not think putting a missile shield in Poland might not piss Russia off. It fu*king with the balance of power.

[Granitehewer]

Azerbaijan was offered by the russians as a joint site and compromise but was rejected,which is a further sting
Mr Putin argued the benefits of his suggested substitute: An Azerbaijan-based system would cover all of Europe rather than just part of it, and destroyed missile debris would fall in the ocean rather than on land.-so says the Daily Telegraph.
Washington has already considered basing elements of its missile defenses in the Caucasus region, which includes Azerbaijan, along with the proposed bases in Eastern Europe. On a visit to NATO headquarters in March, Lt. Gen. Henry A. Obering, director of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, said placing a radar unit in the area "would be very useful for the anti-missile system."
However U.S. officials have insisted in recent weeks that the sites in Poland and the Czech Republic are best locations for maximizing the effectiveness of the missile defenses, in conjunction with existing U.S. sites in Alaska and California. They say placing the interceptors too close to potential threats in the Middle East would not give them sufficient time to shoot down incoming missiles.

[sunnyside]

Actually that might be true. While hitting a missile in the boost phase would be idea I don't think our interceptors can do it at the moment. We have to hit them in the ballistic phase.

Though part of the missile defense business probably is Russia. Sounds like it's working in a way. Any nuke they fire at Poland could be counted as one "intercepted" as far as how many Americans die is concerned.

Just as importantly it means Russia would certainly pull NATO and probably the EU into the conflict if they're nuking countries like Poland.

I also suspect that there is a strong "plant the flag" aspect. i.e. the US has a reason to move forces into a conflict if a US base or military equipment is being threatened.

[Mikey]

Do you guys really think that the US wouldn't have accepted Azerbaijan if Russia wasn't rolling tanks through Gori? This isn't about the missile defense per se; it's about a little intangible smackdown.

BTW, Poland agreed to host the sites, also.

[Monroe]

As I pointed out in the other thread this Russia invasion makes all its neighbors worried. And Poland has a past of being steamrolled. Russia's boxing itself in. All those old republics will be jumping to join NATO and getting missile defense systems of their own.

[Granitehewer]

eh? mikey,russia rolled its forces into georgia,quite a while after the az site was rejected.
Poland and the Czech Republic are somewhat divided via this missile shield plan, with each side accusing each other of taking handouts from the Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti, Служба Внешней Разведки,Glavnoje Razvedyvatel'noje Upravlenije or CIA, its a case of slinging sh*t and slightly rewording the argument which makes an amusing read of the russian papers here.

[Granitehewer]

ps am offline until sept, apart from the odd burst, so wish everyone here,an excellant august and thanks for being so fun and fair
p

[stitch626]

Here comes WWIII. "As his last act in office, Prez Bush declares war on Russia." He'd probly do it, to.

[Tsukiyumi]

Here comes WWIII. "As his last act in office, Prez Bush declares war on Russia." He'd probly do it, to.

I was thinking "President Bush loses favorite pop-up book, international search underway" is more likely.

[Deepcrush]

Here comes WWIII. "As his last act in office, Prez Bush declares war on Russia." He'd probly do it, to.

I was thinking "President Bush loses favorite pop-up book, international search underway" is more likely.

[Aaron]

How the Fu*k did America not think putting a missile shield in Poland might not **** Russia off. It fu*king with the balance of power.

Well for starters the search and guidance radar are pointing in the wrong direction to intercept Russian missiles.

[Teaos]

And that cant be changed fairly quickly?