www.ditl.org

Willfull ignorance. I know, for example, that this Islamic group was Sufi, and I didn't even try. The people who make asses of themselves, like this Ayling freak, intentionally refuse to mitigate their ignorance because it might interfere with the bigotry which they love so much.

It's just sad at this point. Why isn't anyone trying to educate people about this? The media has proven that they aren't biased to the left or right, they're just whores prostituting themselves for ratings by feeding the flames of this thing.

Here's a video of one of the anti-mosque rallies, including another instance of the classic "he's dark-skinned, therefore he must be a Muslim!" thinking.

Honestly, at this point anyone who denies that this whole thing is anything other than anti-Islamic bigotry with a dose of racism mixed in simply can't have been paying any attention to the rallies themselves.

Yeah its all based on ignorance and racism. Can you imagine the outcry if we started lumping liberal Christians in with the nutters?

I think the irony of all this is lost on them though, its exactly the kind of thinking that lead to 9/11.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Can you imagine the outcry if we started lumping liberal Christians in with the nutters?

If you mean the far-right evangelicals, I already do.

Cpl Kendall wrote:I think the irony of all this is lost on them though, its exactly the kind of thinking that lead to 9/11.

I couldn't help thinking the exact same thing. I'd bet more money than I have (which ain't a lot) that if you take any one of these ignorant seive-minded protestors, took them aside, and told them that someone was loudly speaking out against "our" American freedoms and way of life, they'd spit nails. The, of course, they'd have an aneurysm when you told them it was the protestors themselves.

Hate is a hard thing to let go of, and i'm not saying anything about pro-anti Mosque, just in reality of life. Speaking for myself I grew up in area's that very from mild segregation to flat out bigotry. This isn't held only to whites or blacks or any other color, we all share some level of racism by simply being alive. This comes and goes with knowledge and understanding and while I'm sure that much of this is the willful ignorance that Mikey speaks of, that's not the only side of it. People often find that having something common as a threat is something that will unite them. This Mosque isn't just a Mosque to some but an end to the idealized hate which has brought them together. It is literally an end to the very symbol that so many hold dear.

Down south we don't really need symbols to hate, we're pretty good at just picking fights on our own.

Our innate prejudices are something different. I don't think anybody on this forum would be so presumptious or brazen to claim that they have no innate prejudices. These protesters are another thing entirely - they are actively transferring their hatred onto something that doesn't deserve it and actively ignoring the facts which show that this target doesn't deserve it. I believe that the Imam in question and his (eminently intelligent, rational, reasonable, and well-spoken) wife Daisy Khan are citizens - yet these protestors go on about how rights should be denied for all except "Americans" (which their targets are) and about how the Islamic group should be denied their rights as punishment for being the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks - which they are obviously and patently not.

I have as much malice for the people who perpetrated those attacks as anyone - including personal malice for the folks I knew who were killed in those attacks. However, those attacks and that malice have precisely ZERO to do with this Islamic community... a fact which the protesters deliberately ignore in order to justify their intent, which seems to be shouting at people who aren't white Christians.

What I don't understand is that - no matter their reasoning - did it not occur to them that building a mosque there is not the brightest idea in the universe?

I understand that - and correct me if I am wrong - that this is more of an islamic culture centre and is supposed to show the peaceful side of the religion and promote understanding and peace. These are all worthy goals but did it not occure to those bright minds that many people would not view this intellectually but emotionally and feel provoced by such a thing?

So I am sure that it wasn't meant as a bad thing, but alone to consider this shows imho a very heavy hand and a complete lack of diplomacy. Just build the thing somewhere else and not on ground zero. But then I also think they should generally build less churches and more schools and universities.....

Ok, lemme put it this way.

Back when the Catholic priest/little boy thing was at it's height would a Baptist church have expected to catch shit for wanting to build a new community center somewhere?

Tyyr wrote:Ok, lemme put it this way.

Back when the Catholic priest/little boy thing was at it's height would a Baptist church have expected to catch s**t for wanting to build a new community center somewhere?

If it was in England after some English kid got pimped, then yes.

Really? Two completely different branches of the same religion?

Tyyr wrote:Really? Two completely different branches of the same religion?

If a group of Christians wanted to set up a young boys club across the street from a some kid's house, that kid having just been raped like a turn style, then yes.

Atekimogus wrote:What I don't understand is that - no matter their reasoning - did it not occur to them that building a mosque there is not the brightest idea in the universe?

I understand that - and correct me if I am wrong - that this is more of an islamic culture centre and is supposed to show the peaceful side of the religion and promote understanding and peace. These are all worthy goals but did it not occure to those bright minds that many people would not view this intellectually but emotionally and feel provoced by such a thing?

So I am sure that it wasn't meant as a bad thing, but alone to consider this shows imho a very heavy hand and a complete lack of diplomacy. Just build the thing somewhere else and not on ground zero. But then I also think they should generally build less churches and more schools and universities.....

Apart from the fact they paid out of there own money for this facility, and likely couldnt afford it again. I may be a bit of an ass but is diplomacy of this type in the constitution? I don't know of it. However, is the right for people to practice and own a religious centre in it? I believe so. At the very least, they have the right to build on the damn property which they paid the money for.

I think what Aketimogous is saying - a sentiment which Daisy Khan has acknowledged, BTW - is that the Sufi group should have expected resistance. They probably should. However, this mitigates neither of two facts:
a) the Sufi group already had that property, and it's not really a market in which one can go swapping around multiple-use city properties as if they were baseball cards, and;
b) whether or not they could have predicted some loudmouths doesn't make the loudmouths any more right.

As far as I am concerned, they can put a Masque across the street from Ground Zero, but not in it. For me it doesn't seem right. IMO