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Not me. Mossberg 500 for me, the Mariner edition depending on the climate. Like I said, switch 3" shells and 2-3/4" shells in your mag, or add a LTL round for knockdown power, or a breaching round, or a slug, and you're just asking for a semi-auto shottie to shit the bed.

Semi-Auto shotties are over-rated. They're fine for light loads in 20 or MAYBE 16 gauge but when you get up into larger shells like a 12 gauge 3 incher by the time you recover from the recoil and get back on target you could have just pumped it for no real difference. Well, the semi is going to be a total pain in the ass to have to keep operational long term with all the cleaning where as a pump is almost indestructible.

Don 't pump shotguns have as much recoil? I thought that as semis use the recoil to reload there would be slightly less recoil.

Some semi-auto's make use of recoil to operate the mechanism but those are the ones most sensitive to what you load in them so you're not likely to be using anything but a very narrow range of ammo taking away one of the big benefits of a shotgun. The gas operated ones are less picky (though still more so than a pump) but require more maintenance to keep operating reliably. If you're really worried about recoil you're better off with a good pad on the end of the stock then going with a semi-auto to try and dampen it. The reliability hit isn't worth it. In any kind of survival/personal defense situation the pump is king. Semi-autos are for hunting or target shooting.

Then of course there are monsters like the AA-12 which is only a shotgun in the ammo that it uses.

I think i'll stick with the Benelli M4 though.

Mikey wrote:@ Lighthawk: as i said to Tsu, I wouldn't bet on zombies being vulnerable to hydrostatic shock and you don't need to pierce armor. The little P90 round might be made up for by volume of fire compared to the M1911, but having both is a waste. I don't see the PDW round doing much, if anything, to your friendly neighborhood walking dead.

I'm not going for hydrostatic or armor piercing with my choice. I'd load the thing up with hallow points. As for having both, again, the M1911 is purely backup, so that I'm not left unarmed if something goes wrong with the P90. If I never have to draw the thing I'll be happy.

I went with the P90 for my running selection for a couple of reasons. It's a lightweight gun, so it's less to lug around. It's got a nice 50 round mag; I've shot enough guns to understand I don't have enough practice to expect to be able to aim well in a high stress situation. I'll be shooting off sweeping bursts at head level, not trying to put individual rounds into skulls. It's very compact; you could reasonably use it from inside a vehicle, and if I'm running for safer ground, I'm damn well going to be trying to find a ride. I'm not approaching this with the mindset of being in a FPS or a soldier heading to the battlefield, I'm going with the mindset of a normal guy looking to haul ass out of a bad situation. If I can get out of the zombie infected lands without firing a single shot, I would call it a perfect escape.

As for semi-auto shotguns, might be a point on reliability. The M4 is suppose to be pretty reliable, but I have no first hand experience to go by on that.

alexmann wrote:I think i'll stick with the Benelli M4 though.

Like I and Tyyr have said, that's great for the jarheads - who have access to parts, cleaning kits, etc., and can field strip it and snake out the carbon from the mechanism. If you're going to mix rounds, or might have to.. oh, I don't know, run from zombies instead of cleaning your gun, it's not such a good idea.

@ Lighthawk - you can load ANY gun with JHP cartridges. The advantage of a PDW-type weapon, such as the P90, is AP and the ability to be used in vehicles, etc. Used as a pistol replacement, it's fine - but it doesn't have the stopping power or range to compete with an assault rifle as a longarm.

Hmm, I'd have to look into it but do they make JHP's for the P90? Ah yes, they do. If I had to chose between a pistol and the P90 I'd probably go with the P90. Then again I maintain that if you're at a range where a pistol is a viable weapons choice you need to be running, not shooting.

Mikey wrote:@ Lighthawk - you can load ANY gun with JHP cartridges. The advantage of a PDW-type weapon, such as the P90, is AP and the ability to be used in vehicles, etc. Used as a pistol replacement, it's fine - but it doesn't have the stopping power or range to compete with an assault rifle as a longarm.

Again, I'm not looking to compete with an assault rifle. I'm not going out to fight zombies, I'm running from them. Hence I want a lightweight weapon with decent power that can be used in tight quarters. An assault rifle is for picking off targets at a distance. If a zombie isn't in my face, I'm not shooting it, because all that does is attract more of them. If you have a suggestion for a better weapon that fulfills that role, I'd love to hear it, but I'm not about to try wrestling with an M-16 inside of a car when there's a zombie coming in through the window.

Well if I am just taking up a position and defending it then I want the following, again going with the unlimited ammo approach.

Long Rifle- An MK-17 or something else chambered for a heavy 7.62 round with a decent optical sight of some sort to give me long range stopping power.
Shotgun- Take your pick, plenty of good options already presented.
Other- I will take some claymore mines if I can have my pick of any weapon to have with me.

I prefer the Claymore over other close combat weapons as it is sort of my last resort. If people are getting close you blow a few and run away. You can put them near your front to push people back. You can put them around your planned exit path if you get enveloped by the horde to chop a way out and at least give you a fighting chance to run.

Mikey wrote:@ Lighthawk - you can load ANY gun with JHP cartridges. The advantage of a PDW-type weapon, such as the P90, is AP and the ability to be used in vehicles, etc. Used as a pistol replacement, it's fine - but it doesn't have the stopping power or range to compete with an assault rifle as a longarm.

In this situation I doubt a modern assault rifle would do much better - either way you're still going to have rounds going straight through zombies without doing enough damage to put them down. Indeed, the lower muzzle velocity of a PDW might be an advantage - it would stand a chance of dumping more of its energy into the zombie than a 5.56mm round would, especially will hollow-point ammo. For that matter, could an assault rifle even be loaded with such ammo?

Long Rifle- An MK-17 or something else chambered for a heavy 7.62 round with a decent optical sight of some sort to give me long range stopping power.

SLR. Solid, reliable, if the target's hit it will stay hit, and if the worse comes to the worst you can whack zombies with it without worrying about breaking the thing.

What you really need is a very reliable shotgun, no recoil and lots of ammo.

alexmann wrote:What you really need is a very reliable shotgun

Yes, yes, been there, done that. Try to keep up with the debate.

no recoil

Not going to happen, ever.

lots of ammo.

Your own fucking OP specifically stated that we're to assume unlimited ammo.

Lighthawk wrote:An assault rifle is for picking off targets at a distance.

That's almost the exact antithesis of the purpose of the assault rifle. The assault rifle was developed solely and expressly to supplant the battle rifle when it was deemed that warfare had changed to the point at which most exchanges took place at under 300m. Further, most definitions of "assault rifle" include a corollary about using an intermediate round - using a rifle primer, but a smaller powder load than a battle rifle.

Lighthawk wrote:Hence I want a lightweight weapon with decent power that can be used in tight quarters.

Understood, but the P90 - most PDW's actually - sacrifice stopping power for AP, using small cartridges and small, high-velocity bullets. Now, against living humans the lack of stopping power is mitigated to an extent by the effects of hydrostatic shock caused by supersonic bullets. Causing remote hemmorrhaging in something that's already dead probably isn't going to help that much.

Lighthawk wrote:If you have a suggestion for a better weapon that fulfills that role, I'd love to hear it,

Umm, OK:
The Heckler & Koch MP5 is available in chamberings for the Fed 10mm or the .40 S&W; the successor H&K UMP is available in chamberings for .45 ACP or .40 S&W; we've already discussed both the Thompson and the Kriss Super-V, which are both .45 ACP SMG's (though admittedly, the Tommy's a bit bigger than the M5, UMP, Kriss, or FN P90) along with the old M3 and M50; and there's a Serbian SMG which uses the 7.62x39.

Captain Seafort wrote:Indeed, the lower muzzle velocity of a PDW might be an advantage - it would stand a chance of dumping more of its energy into the zombie than a 5.56mm round would

You will notice, perhaps, that my choice for assault rifle was one which chambers the 7.62x51.

alexmann wrote:shotgun, no recoil

Perhaps the leprechaun will deliver such a weapon after you win his pot of gold.