www.ditl.org

Of course, we do get sub-standard teachers getting in over here as well. Most of them quickly end up getting kicked out after the annual teacher inspection, but some of them continue to slip through.

Wow, teachers actually getting fired. That'd be new. Of course over here they're so desperate for students you'd practically have to molest one in the middle of class and videotape it to get fired.

Agreed completely. I hadn't a clue just how bad the education system was in the US until now. Sure, I'd heard a lot of complaints about it from US residents, and a few colleagues of mine seem to take particular pleasure in deriding it at any oppertunity (which I mostly ignored, given that this badmouthing started in ~2004, when anti-Americanism was cool). But I'd never actualy realised just how utterly f***ing insanely the thing is run. Why the f**k doesn't anyone do something about it?

Politics. It's a political issue, and therefore any attempt to "reform" it can immediately be painted as "cuts and ruining our children's future" by their opponent. You can't call the management incompetent or the teacher's union will leave you hanging and support the other guy. Ultimately we've managed to make it so the only thing you can say when you talk about education is throwing money at the problem. Really fixing it is never even considered.

So you see why I'm not to hot to trot to give the government health care?

f***ing hell. Dissent should be encouraged. How else are students going to learn to be critical of things, and think for themselves?

I'm sorry, being critical of things? Thinking for themselves? That's not allowed. You will learn to be a good little drone in college and parrot the far left agenda or you'll be labeled a bigot and tossed out. Well, maybe not tossed out, but a D is a nice little fuck you.

In the grand scheme of things I suppose being ignored is mostly for the better. Sure, teachers over here sometimes have to put up with the government screwing them over, but at least the kids seem to turn out alright. Which is the important thing.

Like everything there's a balance. Teachers really need to be listened to as ours are paid pathetically and given no support at all from parents. Of course their union gives them no support either. Like all unions it stopped caring about its member's rights and became all about propogating itself long ago.

Okay, cool.

Please note that I say "Should be," nothing past basic algebra and geometry is actually required.

Clinton has an excellent reputation in Europe, for reasons mostly unknown. He's popular in Ireland due to his help in getting the guys up North to stop killing each other, but I've no idea why everyone else likes him. It's probably his personality. Say what you will about his policies, that guy knew how to get a crowd on his side.

He did, and honestly I have no idea why people loved him. The guy hardly DID anything. He coasted for eight years in the Whitehouse. Hell, internationally things went totally to shit with him at the helm. North Korea and nukes? Yep, didn't do a damn thing. Terrorism, nah, we don't want to bring in Osama. The most memorable thing the guy did was get a blow job from an average looking (at best) intern.

Atekimogus wrote:I understand your example but I think you are oversimplifiying things a bit here. Also what is missing in your example would be the fact that this mechanic is also dutybound to - or at least try - repair the cars of people who would normally not be able to avord a mechanic.

...HAHAHAHAHAHA... ...ok, sorry, I died laughing when I saw dutybound in relation to politicians.

However I would point out however that no where in the Constitution does it say the US government is obligated to give everyone health care. Whether or not you think they should is one thing, but they're not duty bound to do any damn thing that's not outlined there. Hence the debate over whether or not we want it.

If you are looking for a perfect solution there isn't probably one but there clearly is a middle-way.

I don't see how giving someone with a proven track record of being a total fuck-up control of yet another important institution is in any way sane.

Rochey wrote:[

Tyyr wrote:The multiple choice thing, I think it's got to do with the number of SAT's that get taken. Grading them all by hand would be a huge undertaking, and people over here don't like that. They'd prefer an impartial machine do it rather than a human who might not like the way they did something.

Hmm. But what about subjects that don't have a set, right or wrong answer? Like writing an essay for English, or how good your Spannish is in a letter you're supposed to write? Not everything has a black/white right/wrong answer.

Over here, examiners paid by the state correct the exams. There are, of course, set marking schemes (which are all publicaly available for free) which they have to follow. But a fair bit of it is down to the examiner himself, who'll give you a certain amount of marks for each question depending on how well he thinks you did. When the results are published, you can go and see how your test was marked. If you think your examiner was a jackass, you can have it recorected by a completely different examiner.

As someone who took the SATs, the secret to the SAT is that it is more of a test on how you take tests than on what you know. The ACT from what I understand is a much more knowledge/subject based test. I took the SATs twice, once in May and once in October of last year. The essays from what I understand are actually read (or maybe I'm thinking of the AP test...) The multiple choice is fed through the scantron machine, and the essay's are read by i think a panel of 3 reviewers who rate them 1-10, with 0/nonscorable being completely off-prompt or illegible. The first time I took the test, I scored a 670 in reading, 480 in math and 640 in writing; the second time I scored an 800 (perfect score) in Reading, 470 in Math and 650 in writing. Once you've taking them once and understand how the test works, scores usually go up. AND you can keep taking it as often as you want...

A completely worthless test except maybe for bragging rights.

So the ACTs are more representative of what you're supposed to know?

Out of curiosity, what subjects do they teach in a US high school?

Tyyr wrote: Wow, teachers actually getting fired. That'd be new. Of course over here they're so desperate for students you'd practically have to molest one in the middle of class and videotape it to get fired.

It's not exactly easy for a teacher to get fired over here, but it seems a damn sight easier than in the US at any rate.

Tyyr wrote:Politics. It's a political issue, and therefore any attempt to "reform" it can immediately be painted as "cuts and ruining our children's future" by their opponent. You can't call the management incompetent or the teacher's union will leave you hanging and support the other guy. Ultimately we've managed to make it so the only thing you can say when you talk about education is throwing money at the problem. Really fixing it is never even considered.

Funny. Over here they do nothing but cut the damn budget for education.

So you see why I'm not to hot to trot to give the government health care?

Yeah, I'm starting to see where your worries are coming from. It seems to me that you'd need to first reform the entire political system to prevent any sort of socialised healthcare turning out like the education system.

Tyyr wrote:I'm sorry, being critical of things? Thinking for themselves? That's not allowed. You will learn to be a good little drone in college and parrot the far left agenda or you'll be labeled a bigot and tossed out. Well, maybe not tossed out, but a D is a nice little f**k you.

I'm not sure I'd call it the far left agenda. Isn't evolution still not thought in many US schools, or at the least still thought alongside "alternative" theories? It seems more like pandering to what the most popular belief is, which turns out some sort of bastardised mix of far left and far right beliefs.

Tyyr wrote:Like everything there's a balance. Teachers really need to be listened to as ours are paid pathetically and given no support at all from parents. Of course their union gives them no support either. Like all unions it stopped caring about its member's rights and became all about propogating itself long ago.

Your unions need a kick up the arse in that case.
Teachers over here do get paid fairly well, though. Not "new Mercedes per year" level, but "comfortable home and a nice car" level is about average.

Tyyr wrote:Please note that I say "Should be," nothing past basic algebra and geometry is actually required.

Aye, if there's one criticism I'd lay on our curriculae it's that it teaches a load of shit you'll just never need unless you actualy go on to college to study in that subject.

Tyyr wrote:He did, and honestly I have no idea why people loved him. The guy hardly DID anything. He coasted for eight years in the Whitehouse. Hell, internationally things went totally to s**t with him at the helm. North Korea and nukes? Yep, didn't do a damn thing. Terrorism, nah, we don't want to bring in Osama. The most memorable thing the guy did was get a blow job from an average looking (at best) intern.

Aye, he seemed like a slacker president, if anything. Looked good and was popular with everyone, but did fuck all.
Though we Europeans found the whole "let's impeach him for getting a blowjob" thing to be utterly hilarious. Then there was a sort of vague shock when we found out you were actualy serious about it.

Tyyr wrote:

stitch626 wrote:And then there are the schools that are ridiculously underfunded to the point where they can't afford to pay for any subs.
So the main problems with US ed is teaching to the test and mismanaged funding.

Are you sure they're actually underfunded? In many cases they're not, the money they get is frittered away by incompetents.

Oh yes, I know my old high school was underfunded. I've seen their budget. Our district is the poorest district in Dutchess County.

Most of the problem is we needed a new high school a few years back, so that was several millions. Then they needed to work on all 4 elementary schools and the middle school (they had almost 35 kids per classroom due to lack of rooms). And that was in one year, so it was tough.
Also doesn't help that half the population doesn't like any increase in school funding (one guy convinces all of the older folks to vote no on the budget... the reasoning being that they don't have kids in school and as such shouldn't pay taxes on it).

Rochey wrote:So the ACTs are more representative of what you're supposed to know?

Honestly I don't think so. I got a 29 out of 32 on the ACT with no studying and minimal sleep. It's a bit better than the SAT on the reading and writing portion but I don't consider it to be that much better.

Out of curiosity, what subjects do they teach in a US high school?

Well, English about four times. Nothing really new or different from what you'd learned in middle school, they just teach if four more times. US History, US Government, World History, Biology, General Science... ugh, been over a decade. The biggest gripe is that you are not challenged. In many cases you're taught the same thing you've already been taught once before, or three times before. New book, new teacher, same material. It's also all incredibly dumbed down lest you actually fail someone.

Tyyr wrote: Wow, teachers actually getting fired. That'd be new. Of course over here they're so desperate for students you'd practically have to molest one in the middle of class and videotape it to get fired.

It's not exactly easy for a teacher to get fired over here, but it seems a damn sight easier than in the US at any rate.

Yeah, I'm starting to see where your worries are coming from. It seems to me that you'd need to first reform the entire political system to prevent any sort of socialised healthcare turning out like the education system.

Exactly. I just don't see the reform happening. I see the government taking over healthcare and everything going to shit because of it.

I'm not sure I'd call it the far left agenda. Isn't evolution still not thought in many US schools, or at the least still thought alongside "alternative" theories? It seems more like pandering to what the most popular belief is, which turns out some sort of bastardised mix of far left and far right beliefs.

I'm speaking more to the colleges than highschool. At best some places teach creationism along side evolution. It's not particularly common however from what I've seen.

Your unions need a kick up the arse in that case.

They've destroyed the US auto and steel industries. They've destroyed in all but name the education system. I'm not terribly enamored with the Unions. I think they're an institution that served its purpose but its time for them to go.

Teachers over here do get paid fairly well, though. Not "new Mercedes per year" level, but "comfortable home and a nice car" level is about average.

*Sigh* I need to look it up. I used to know the figure well. Ah, average is $46k take home, of course that's average which takes into account... well everyone, faculty and teachers, including the teachers who've been there the longest and have the highest pay. I think starting is somewhere around $35k a year. This is Florida and is relatively middle of the road, but we've got a high cost of living.

Aye, if there's one criticism I'd lay on our curriculae it's that it teaches a load of s**t you'll just never need unless you actualy go on to college to study in that subject.

Like I said. Not preparing you for a career, making you a well rounded person. Wastes an inedible amount of time.

Aye, he seemed like a slacker president, if anything. Looked good and was popular with everyone, but did f**k all.
Though we Europeans found the whole "let's impeach him for getting a blowjob" thing to be utterly hilarious. Then there was a sort of vague shock when we found out you were actualy serious about it.

It was not the suck, it was that he lied about it under oath. Lying under oath is a serious crime. It doesn't matter what he's lying about. That being said Ken Star was an over zealous attack dog on a crusade.

Tyyr wrote:Honestly I don't think so. I got a 29 out of 32 on the ACT with no studying and minimal sleep. It's a bit better than the SAT on the reading and writing portion but I don't consider it to be that much better.

So basicaly they both suck in terms of actualy assessing the students?

Tyyr wrote:Well, English about four times. Nothing really new or different from what you'd learned in middle school, they just teach if four more times. US History, US Government, World History, Biology, General Science... ugh, been over a decade.

Seems much the same as ours, from that. Obviously, though, it's Irish/European history and Irish/European government for us.

Tyyr wrote:he biggest gripe is that you are not challenged. In many cases you're taught the same thing you've already been taught once before, or three times before. New book, new teacher, same material.

Well that's kinda contrary to the whole point of education, isn't it?

Tyyr wrote:It's also all incredibly dumbed down lest you actually fail someone.

Wait, you're not supposed to fail students?

Tyyr wrote:Exactly. I just don't see the reform happening. I see the government taking over healthcare and everything going to s**t because of it.

Hm. I do see where you're coming from now. I really don't have any suggestions here. AFAIK, all states I know of with socialised healthcare have fairly divided governments.

Tyyr wrote:I'm speaking more to the colleges than highschool. At best some places teach creationism along side evolution. It's not particularly common however from what I've seen.

Okay.

Tyyr wrote:They've destroyed the US auto and steel industries. They've destroyed in all but name the education system. I'm not terribly enamored with the Unions. I think they're an institution that served its purpose but its time for them to go.

Hell, it's been ages since I've actualy heard of our unions doing anything. Other than that big mass strike earlier this year, that is.

Tyyr wrote:*Sigh* I need to look it up. I used to know the figure well. Ah, average is $46k take home, of course that's average which takes into account... well everyone, faculty and teachers, including the teachers who've been there the longest and have the highest pay. I think starting is somewhere around $35k a year. This is Florida and is relatively middle of the road, but we've got a high cost of living.

Hm, okay. need to look up how those figures convert to euros.

Tyyr wrote:It was not the suck, it was that he lied about it under oath. Lying under oath is a serious crime. It doesn't matter what he's lying about. That being said Ken Star was an over zealous attack dog on a crusade.

Ah, I see. All we heard was the "he got a blowjob!" hysteria.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:That's just insane. Over here, schools do none of that.

Of course, I'm talking about inner-city districts, but the idea is the same. "Insane" is a good way to describe it.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:Our schools don't even have a psychiatrist.

They're often less for head-shrinking and more for diagnosis and action plans for students with cognitive disabilities.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:I've never even heard of an action committe

A committee made up of faculty, administrators, and parents, designed to review every case of a child being referred for special-ed or a personal learning plan. In theory, it's to prevent kids being referred when they just ran into a teacher that couldn't help; in practice, it's a roadblock for kids getting referred who do need to be.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:intervention teacher.

They've gone by other names, but basically a teacher wihtout a classroom, who will go into each classroom of a grade level for periods of time to assist kids who are lagging behind in basic skills.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:reading and maths specialists are to help students that are terrible at maths or reading?

To help kids who are performing under grade level; also, to help the classroom teachers level the kids' abilities and to help create differentiated instruction plans.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:If a kid has special needs then they're not admitted to a standard school over here. They're sent to a school purely for special needs kids. The only student I've ever seen that was even close to a special needs student was a guy who'd lost his right arm in some sort of accident, and so needed a scribe.

Special education is generally contained inside the public schools, both self-contained (a purely special-ed class) or inclusion (also called "mainstreaming," for kids who are able to take some advantage of a more general classroom but also getting extra assistance in certain basic skills concepts.) It includes both physical disabilites like you describe as well as mental or cognitive handicaps.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:Seriously? That's just insane. You want stationary? There's a perfectly good petrol station down the road that sells that stuff. Books? Buy them at a shop. Or if you can't afford new ones, get them second hand in the annual student book sales where older students sell the books they no longer need pretty cheaply.
Hell, even at exams you're expected to bring all your own stuff with you. The only exception is log tables, which are handed out to prevent people smuggling notes into the exam hall in theirs.

I agree, but as I said this applies mostly to inner-city districts, and the bleeding-heart mentality prevails. Aw, we can't let him fail because his Mommy can't afford a pencil! That's great, but the budget is getting sapped to supply these things to kids who get dropped off at school in a Mercedes.

<em>Rochey</em> wrote:That's a pretty serious problem. A bad teacher can seriously f**k up a kid's chances of getting through a subject. What sort of restrictions do you have on teachers over there? What sort of classes and courses do you need to pass? Over here you've got to get through a shitload of training

Either a B.A in education, along with one in a specialization at the high-school level, plus a continuing education requirement (40 hrs./year, I think, of seminars, workshops, conferences, etc.) Some states, like mine, have an alternate-route certification; my wife was a poli-sci major, then took an extra course of certification classes to get her primary-ed certification (without having to go back for another B.A.) But tenure - which was meant to protect teachers from the ravages of budget and whimsical administration - has really become a system to protect bad teachers. It's normally not even bad teachers per se, but jaded ones. You can hear teachers admit that they're just coasting the last two or three years until they're fully vested in their retirement.

So basicaly they both suck in terms of actualy assessing the students?

Depends on what you're looking for. If you're confirming the student learned the bare minimum they had to then yeah, they're awesome. If you want to find out how intelligent someone is then no.

Well that's kinda contrary to the whole point of education, isn't it?

You'd think so, but US primary education is actually more like state sponsored day care with a little education thrown in just for fun.

Wait, you're not supposed to fail students?

It takes an act of congress. I know kids who did nothing, didn't even try on tests, had the teachers throw extra credit at them, they ignore it and yet somehow they manage to get a D and move on.

Hm. I do see where you're coming from now. I really don't have any suggestions here. AFAIK, all states I know of with socialised healthcare have fairly divided governments.

I don't have a good suggestion either because I don't even know where to begin with the politicians. The biggest concern would be to get people to stop focusing on Democrat vs. Republican and actually consider what is going to be best for the institutions like health care and education. Get rid of the scare tactics and misinformation and actually have a civilized discussion about it. If you can get that to happen somethings will get the reform they need to start working and maybe they can be trusted with healthcare.

Hm, okay. need to look up how those figures convert to euros.

33.25k average and 25.3k starting.

Ah, I see. All we heard was the "he got a blowjob!" hysteria.

Yeah, well that's the media for you. Don't focus on the issue, focus on the most salacious detail.

Mikey wrote:I agree, but as I said this applies mostly to inner-city districts, and the bleeding-heart mentality prevails. Aw, we can't let him fail because his Mommy can't afford a pencil! That's great, but the budget is getting sapped to supply these things to kids who get dropped off at school in a Mercedes...

They absolutely shouldn't be handing out free crap to kids from rich families.

That said, if they hadn't had programs like that when I was in elementary school, I wouldn't have had supplies, period. Or lunch, for that matter. You can't bring food from home if you don't have food at home either.

I'm not saying kids should go hungry. I'm saying that all these things, abuses of the system included, are what makes these school budgets do bloated and unresponsive.

Out of curiosity, what subjects do they teach in a US high school?

Well, English about four times. Nothing really new or different from what you'd learned in middle school, they just teach if four more times. US History, US Government, World History, Biology, General Science... ugh, been over a decade. The biggest gripe is that you are not challenged. In many cases you're taught the same thing you've already been taught once before, or three times before. New book, new teacher, same material. It's also all incredibly dumbed down lest you actually fail someone.
[/quote]
Well, speaking for myself I took English 4 years of it is required. 10th Grade English starts looking at drama and plays and such, 11th grade is supposed to be American Literature (but the way my class was run, I did not learn a thing about American literature. Correction, it's not that I didn't learn it wasn't taught. I'll stop before I go to far [/rant]). and 12th grade is European Literature, AP English in Grade 12 is "Classic Literature". They also offer Biology, AP Biology, Anatomy and Physiology, Chemistry, Physics and Enviromental Science, AP US History, Modern European History, AP European History, "American Cultures" (basic history/social studies 3 years of it, starting in 8th grade), Spanish and German Language, Various Art/Music electives, Gym Class, Small Business, Accounting, Foods (cooking and such), Child Development and such. The last 6 classes are all electives tho, not necessarily required.

Mikey wrote:I'm not saying kids should go hungry. I'm saying that all these things, abuses of the system included, are what makes these school budgets do bloated and unresponsive.

That was a bit of a double-response there; sorry. I was also referencing Rochey's comment of "Want food? Bring it from home." and "Buy the supplies at the store up the street."

I would've just not been able to eat, and had nothing to write on or with.

In high school here, for the first 3 years which is called "Key Stage 3" you do English, maths, Science, RE, Geography, History, Geography, IT, PE, Technology, Art, drama, modern foreign languages, personal development learning. Then in KS4, where you take your options to prepare for GCSE exams, you do GCSE english (either Literature and Language, or just Language. The Lit paper is harder) GCSE maths, GCSE Core Science/Additional Science/Triple Science (depending on your set, you do 1,2 or 3 seperate GCSEs), GCSE RE, PE, IT and PDL are all compulsory lessons. then you take options. Normally you do about 6. I am only doing 3 cause of one is a double year course (which is worth like 7 GCSEs), and my timetable is weird. My other one for the moment is Geography. I will probs take Modern World history next year, and we will be doing Psychology.

Mikey wrote:<em>Rochey</em> wrote:

What's the <em></em> thing?

Mikey wrote:Of course, I'm talking about inner-city districts, but the idea is the same. "Insane" is a good way to describe it.

While I'm not involved in any inner-city schools, I've never heard of the practice at all over here.

Mikey wrote:They're often less for head-shrinking and more for diagnosis and action plans for students with cognitive disabilities.

Ah, right. Well, we wouldn't have kids with cognitive disabilities in the school in the first place.

Mikey wrote:A committee made up of faculty, administrators, and parents, designed to review every case of a child being referred for special-ed or a personal learning plan. In theory, it's to prevent kids being referred when they just ran into a teacher that couldn't help; in practice, it's a roadblock for kids getting referred who do need to be.

I see. Again, we don't have this.

Mikey wrote:They've gone by other names, but basically a teacher wihtout a classroom, who will go into each classroom of a grade level for periods of time to assist kids who are lagging behind in basic skills.

Okay. Our foundation classes seem to fit this description, then.

Mikey wrote:To help kids who are performing under grade level; also, to help the classroom teachers level the kids' abilities and to help create differentiated instruction plans.

Alright. Again, a sort of Foundation analogue.

Mikey wrote:I agree, but as I said this applies mostly to inner-city districts, and the bleeding-heart mentality prevails. Aw, we can't let him fail because his Mommy can't afford a pencil! That's great, but the budget is getting sapped to supply these things to kids who get dropped off at school in a Mercedes.

Aye, that seriously needs rectifying. Come one, a pencil is....what, 20 cents? Hell, you can swipe them for free from the bookies.

Either a B.A in education, along with one in a specialization at the high-school level, plus a continuing education requirement (40 hrs./year, I think, of seminars, workshops, conferences, etc.) Some states, like mine, have an alternate-route certification; my wife was a poli-sci major, then took an extra course of certification classes to get her primary-ed certification (without having to go back for another B.A.) But tenure - which was meant to protect teachers from the ravages of budget and whimsical administration - has really become a system to protect bad teachers. It's normally not even bad teachers per se, but jaded ones. You can hear teachers admit that they're just coasting the last two or three years until they're fully vested in their retirement.

Hm, I see. Not too sure how to go about fixing that.

Tyyr wrote:Depends on what you're looking for. If you're confirming the student learned the bare minimum they had to then yeah, they're awesome. If you want to find out how intelligent someone is then no.

Right. Well there's a problem.

Tyyr wrote:You'd think so, but US primary education is actually more like state sponsored day care with a little education thrown in just for fun.

That's pretty seriously fucked up. I dread to think what happens when the next generation takes over the US.

Tyyr wrote:It takes an act of congress. I know kids who did nothing, didn't even try on tests, had the teachers throw extra credit at them, they ignore it and yet somehow they manage to get a D and move on.

What sort of stuff would they give extra credit for? The only thing you get extra over here is that you can get bonus marks if you answer an exam in Irish (due obviously to the government trying to promote the language).

Tyyr wrote:I don't have a good suggestion either because I don't even know where to begin with the politicians. The biggest concern would be to get people to stop focusing on Democrat vs. Republican and actually consider what is going to be best for the institutions like health care and education. Get rid of the scare tactics and misinformation and actually have a civilized discussion about it. If you can get that to happen somethings will get the reform they need to start working and maybe they can be trusted with healthcare.

The problem is that the current system works fine for the guys in power. Thus there's no actual incentive to change it.

Tyyr wrote:33.25k average and 25.3k starting.

That's it? Starting pay here is €32.6K, and increases by ~1K per year you teach, to a maximum of ~60K. Also, you can get more pay added on if you're the headmaster, deputy headmaster or assistant headmaster depending on how large the school is. Then depending on where and what you teach, you can get more bonus pay (eg, a science teacher in a rural area gets an extra 2K, or any teacher on one of the islands off the coast get an extra couple thousand). And there's a few other things you can get extra pay for.

Tyyr wrote:Yeah, well that's the media for you. Don't focus on the issue, focus on the most salacious detail.

I think it was more the fact that we were all laughing about the ludicrousness of getting pissy over a blowjob, then turned around and went holy shit, they were serious!

me,myself and I wrote:Well, speaking for myself I took English 4 years of it is required. 10th Grade English starts looking at drama and plays and such, 11th grade is supposed to be American Literature (but the way my class was run, I did not learn a thing about American literature. Correction, it's not that I didn't learn it wasn't taught. I'll stop before I go to far [/rant]). and 12th grade is European Literature, AP English in Grade 12 is "Classic Literature". They also offer Biology, AP Biology, Anatomy and Physiology, Chemistry, Physics and Enviromental Science, AP US History, Modern European History, AP European History, "American Cultures" (basic history/social studies 3 years of it, starting in 8th grade), Spanish and German Language, Various Art/Music electives, Gym Class, Small Business, Accounting, Foods (cooking and such), Child Development and such. The last 6 classes are all electives tho, not necessarily required.

Reliant's decription is fairly close to ours. For the first three years you do Maths, English, Irish, a continental language, General Science, History, Geography, Business Studies, and a couple of others of your choosing. You then do an exam (the Junior Certificate) and can leave the school permanently if you wish.
If you choose to stay, the next three years you have a "core" group of subjects (maths, Irish, English, one continental language) and then pick three other subjects you wish to study from a fairly large list of subjects (with some restrictions, depending on schools).

Rochey wrote:What's the <em></em> thing?

Dunno. It showed up when I quoted highlighted blocks. Now, it seems to be gone.

Rochey wrote:Well, we wouldn't have kids with cognitive disabilities in the school in the first place.

Really? You don't have, for example, dyslexic or aphasic students?