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Teaos wrote:Freedom of speech needs to be absolute.

Sure some people will just say stuff to stir **** and get their 15 minutes. But what about the people who do have a ligitimate claim?

A resercher at the local university wrote a paper on how the number of 6 million may be wrong and it may be closer to 5-5.5. Thats hardly denial, its a ligitmate claim to try and get the facts recorded in history as close to reality as possible. But reserch like that is either banned or severly frowned apon, even though he never once said anything that could be considered offencive to any rational person.

Thats why you should never ban any sort of speech.

Wow. Even in Bush-era America, that professor's right to publish would be held paramount.

Its not illegal. Its just the second someone does something like this all the left wingers get in a huff and call him a Nazi ect ect. The Media comes in a blows it out of proportion and nobody bothers to read the paper and se what he actually said.

The University had no option but to let him go due to the bad press.

That's a crying shame.

Teaos wrote:Its not illegal. Its just the second someone does something like this all the left wingers get in a huff and call him a Nazi ect ect. The Media comes in a blows it out of proportion and nobody bothers to read the paper and se what he actually said.

The University had no option but to let him go due to the bad press.

Unless the professor has a history of being involved with right wing or anti-semitic organizations, then I think it's much more likely that it's the Israeli lobby in the U.S. and the various pro-Zionist groups in the U.S., rather than "the left" in general. I only get my back up when people either try to deny it altogether, or admit that it happened but then begin providing various flimsy justifications for it. These days rather than "it didn't happen", what's MUCH more usual to hear is something like "I'm not denying it happened or justifying it, but you have to understand the history of Jewish exploitation of European people going back to the Middle Ages....", that's modern code for Hitler rules. Check out stormfront.org and you'll see plenty of proud racists giving those kinds of arguments.

Duskofdead wrote: "I'm not denying it happened or justifying it, but you have to understand the history of Jewish exploitation of European people going back to the Middle Ages....", that's modern code for Hitler rules. arguments.

They probably noticed that this strategy worked well for those blaming 9/11 on the United States. (or maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse here).

On the professor it sounds like he didn't run into a freedom of speech issue but a PR issue.

Thats why you should never ban any sort of speech

Does that include shouting fire in a theatre, or shouting bomb on a plane or in an airport?

Private places can make their own rules. Thats property rights.

Oh, you mean federal laws?

What?

Teaos wrote:Private places can make their own rules. Thats property rights.

Yeah, if they don't contradict federal/provincial or municipal laws.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

Teaos wrote:Private places can make their own rules. Thats property rights.

Yeah, if they don't contradict federal/provincial or municipal laws.

Your confusion is that Teaos is a Libertarian (correct).

In their system you leave your constitutional rights behind as soon as you step off of your property, however within your own property you are, almost, sovereign. So if a given airport wants to make the rule that you can't deny the holocaust, or even that you can't support the theory there ever was a holocaust, that's fine. If there is a theater that supports yelling fire and such that's cool.

Pretty much.

I always dread these consersations with people though because people who arent familiar with Libertarian idiology and only the American political party tend to think us as selfish racist arseholes.

People also cant seem to see the difference between Libertarians and anarchists.

sunnyside wrote:
In their system you leave your constitutional rights behind as soon as you step off of your property, however within your own property you are, almost, sovereign. So if a given airport wants to make the rule that you can't deny the holocaust, or even that you can't support the theory there ever was a holocaust, that's fine. If there is a theater that supports yelling fire and such that's cool.

So if my neighbor comes onto my property I can execute him without punishment?

Cpl Kendall wrote:

sunnyside wrote:
In their system you leave your constitutional rights behind as soon as you step off of your property, however within your own property you are, almost, sovereign. So if a given airport wants to make the rule that you can't deny the holocaust, or even that you can't support the theory there ever was a holocaust, that's fine. If there is a theater that supports yelling fire and such that's cool.

So if my neighbor comes onto my property I can execute him without punishment?

more or less I think

Cpl Kendall wrote:

sunnyside wrote:
In their system you leave your constitutional rights behind as soon as you step off of your property, however within your own property you are, almost, sovereign. So if a given airport wants to make the rule that you can't deny the holocaust, or even that you can't support the theory there ever was a holocaust, that's fine. If there is a theater that supports yelling fire and such that's cool.

So if my neighbor comes onto my property I can execute him without punishment?

Not unless the Great White North suddenly went Libertarian.