Tax Cuts Extension Back on the Drawing Board.

[Deepcrush]

Both irrelevant and untrue. Now, care to answer the question I posted above - with a flat tax and greater expenditure, how does it help our national situation?

Why would changing out tax system require a greater expenditure?
What does that have to do with the idea of "fair taxation" that we were talking about earlier?

Nice job Mikey, you're not only a beggar but all now a spin doctor. Your kid must be proud, or laughing...

[SolkaTruesilver]

Who you call a beggar?

You and Mikey, I thought that was pretty clear to anyone over the age of two. But then again, you guys are pretty f***ing stupid at times.

Which proves that (yet again) you speak of something you know nothing of.

You know not of my job, of my income, of the tax rate I currently pay. Of the means I used to pay for my studies. Or the number of time I used social security. The amount of debt I have to my friends, family or financial institution. The number of time I actually asked money, nor the number of time people asked me for money.

You just are a fucking old geezer who's just stuck into a situation he's got no power whatsoever about things moving in his life and who find his sole solace into ranting about it to strangers over the internet. But most important of all: you know nothing about me save what I decide to write in my leisure time.

[Deepcrush]

Which proves that (yet again) you speak of something you know nothing of.

Coming from you that hurts me as much as a student saying I don't know anything about living in the real world.

You know not of my job, of my income, of the tax rate I currently pay. Of the means I used to pay for my studies. Or the number of time I used social security. The amount of debt I have to my friends, family or financial institution. The number of time I actually asked money, nor the number of time people asked me for money.

Considering I never talked about your job or studies or social security or your debt... and I couldn't give a shit about your family since if they're anything like you its best we keep you locked up in your little france...

What does this have to do with fair taxation?

You just are a f***ing old geezer who's just stuck into a situation he's got no power whatsoever about things moving in his life and who find his sole solace into ranting about it to strangers over the internet. But most important of all: you know nothing about me save what I decide to write in my leisure time.

Didn't know being 27 counted as a geezer...

Its not really my situation since I don't pay the taxes you guys do. Nice thing about federal jobs is we don't pay federal taxes.

[IanKennedy]

If taxes are equal per income, then that is fair taxation. Unless you can prove that the terms no longer mean what they have for the last thousand years. I don't honestly care that its beyond your abilities to understand because thats not my problem. You don't like it, tough s**t, move on and grow up. I get that most of you can't look past your own personal problems and see a larger picture, but yet again that is also not my problem.

To have fair taxation, you have to have a tax written to be equal in some form or another. Saying that "we should take more because they have more" isn't just unfair, its pathetic.

It's fair because of the impact it has on those involved. Asking someone who earns $1 to give up 30c is not fair as it prevents them from eating. Asking someone who earns $1m to give up 50c in the $ over a certain amount of their earnings has very little effect on their ability to eat or do just about anything else they wish to do. That seems very fair to me. It's also a use of the word fair that fits perfectly with any dictionary you wish to find. What would be unfair is forcing people to starve.

[Deepcrush]

It's fair because of the impact it has on those involved. Asking someone who earns $1 to give up 30c is not fair as it prevents them from eating. Asking someone who earns $1m to give up 50c in the $ over a certain amount of their earnings has very little effect on their ability to eat or do just about anything else they wish to do. That seems very fair to me. It's also a use of the word fair that fits perfectly with any dictionary you wish to find. What would be unfair is forcing people to starve.

Since no one in the US is only making 1$ a day that whole speech is pointless.

[IanKennedy]

Who you call a beggar?

You and Mikey, I thought that was pretty clear to anyone over the age of two. But then again, you guys are pretty f***ing stupid at times.

Or perhaps you're the one that's stupid, after all everyone else gets it and you don't. You've got to admit (but probably wont) that it's a possibility.

[Captain Seafort]

Or perhaps you're the one that's stupid, after all everyone else gets it and you don't.

Don't be unkind Ian - it's not his fault his magic headband is preventing our arguments getting through.

[SolkaTruesilver]

You know not of my job, of my income, of the tax rate I currently pay. Of the means I used to pay for my studies. Or the number of time I used social security. The amount of debt I have to my friends, family or financial institution. The number of time I actually asked money, nor the number of time people asked me for money.

Considering I never talked about your job or studies or social security or your debt... and I couldn't give a s**t about your family since if they're anything like you its best we keep you locked up in your little france...

What does this have to do with fair taxation?

It has everything to do about calling be a "beggar". I don't beg.

You just are a f***ing old geezer who's just stuck into a situation he's got no power whatsoever about things moving in his life and who find his sole solace into ranting about it to strangers over the internet. But most important of all: you know nothing about me save what I decide to write in my leisure time.

Didn't know being 27 counted as a geezer...

You sound like one grumpy, hateful old man who's best years are behind him and has nothing else to expect from life. That's the mental picture I drew from the way you write and argue.

Its not really my situation since I don't pay the taxes you guys do. Nice thing about federal jobs is we don't pay federal taxes.

Wow. And yet, even if you don't pay any tax, you have such a strong and stupid opinion about it?

It just gives more credence to the whole idea that "only taxpayers should have a say about taxes".

[Deepcrush]

Or perhaps you're the one that's stupid, after all everyone else gets it and you don't. You've got to admit (but probably wont) that it's a possibility.

Its entirely possible, but unlikely given the company.

Don't be unkind Ian - it's not his fault his magic headband is preventing our arguments getting through.

Aww, a chakat comment. Keeping up the fine tradition of how useless you are as a Mod. Good to see that somethings always remain the same.

You sound like one grumpy, hateful old man who's best years are behind him and has nothing else to expect from life. That's the mental picture I drew from the way you write and argue.

Considering I have a very enjoyable life with a new deployment coming up and many years left... I'm thinking you shouldn't try to analyze people.

Wow. And yet, even if you don't pay any tax, you have such a strong and stupid opinion about it?

It just gives more credence to the whole idea that "only taxpayers should have a say about taxes".

Wrong, let me clear it up. I don't pay federal income tax as a federal employ. However I still pay SS and all the rest plus State Taxes. The fact that I don't pay the tax in question yet I'm voting that I should be paying that normally helps the position.

Though this is you and your IQ is sadly lacking.

[stitch626]

The only problem with a flat tax rate (on income only for arguments sake) is that those working low end jobs (ie, someone who works part time at Walmart and can't get another job) will not have enough to either pay for rent or eat. And it is unfair to force someone to choose between food and shelter.

[Deepcrush]

Again thats just a lazy comparison. If you're that hard out on money then apply for financial aid, thats what its for.

[Tsukiyumi]

...If you're that hard out on money then apply for financial aid, thats what its for.

Sorry, dude. No dice. I applied for several types and was turned down because I can't afford to see a doctor. Honestly, my mom is dead because we couldn't afford to see a doctor. Financial aid might be a valid option for some people, but not everyone.

[stitch626]

Again thats just a lazy comparison. If you're that hard out on money then apply for financial aid, thats what its for.

I'm not personally, as I live with my parents.

But, a person working just full time at a minimum wage job is not eligible for any financial aid (unless they have dependents). At a flat rate (one that would make as much as we have now) they could not afford to both pay rent and eat suitably (at least in my area, I don't know about cost of living else-ware), and certainly they could not afford medical insurance (and since medicaid... or medicare, can't remember which is for the poor, has a 200$ deductible, they can't afford to get sick period).

[stitch626]

And even if you can get financial aid, it doesn't help much.

A friend of mine gets $760 a month from the state for lack of income and his disabilities. That amount is for two people, him and his roommate. His rent (the cheapest in the area) is $700 a month. So for two people, they have $60 a month. Fortunately, they do get food stamps, so that is not an issue.

However, if he got a job that paid $300 a month (about the average in his area, for unskilled and non college edu), he would lose FA and only his roommate would get FA income (which would come out to about $300 because he is not disabled and lives with an employed roommate). So they are down to $600 a month, and are out on the streets as soon as their landlord gets tired of losing money.

The current FA system is a joke. It doesn't make up for poorly thought out taxation.

And the bad economy doesn't help.

[Deepcrush]

...If you're that hard out on money then apply for financial aid, thats what its for.

Sorry, dude. No dice. I applied for several types and was turned down because I can't afford to see a doctor. Honestly, my mom is dead because we couldn't afford to see a doctor. Financial aid might be a valid option for some people, but not everyone.

Under the very system you're supporting, so the dice problem is yours. With a varied tax system you also get a varied output. The less you pay in the less you get out. But thats what you guys are asking for so I guess its the outcome you wanted right? (thats sarcasm)

double snip

I just googled for rooms around me and found one for $125 a month. If you get $700 a month in aid, that leaves you a tiny $575 for food and gas. Thats not counting whatever you earn at your job.