US vs Arizona

[Deepcrush]

Sorry stitch but Mikey is right. Whoever's telling you all this it playing with your head.

[Lt. Staplic]

Just for the record, here in Texas it's illegal not to carry a state-issued ID if you're over 18. Has been as long as I've lived here. They'll haul your ass in for not having one.

Even if your not a resident of the state?

[Tsukiyumi]

Just for the record, here in Texas it's illegal not to carry a state-issued ID if you're over 18. Has been as long as I've lived here. They'll haul your ass in for not having one.

Even if your not a resident of the state?

You'd better have an ID from your own state then.

[Lt. Staplic]

okay, I must have misread....I thought you meant you had to have an ID issued from the state of Texas.

[stitch626]

Yes you are. Said detention isn't an assumption of guilt like an indictment is. Further, legal residents under this law won't be detained any longer than is necessary to get their ID out of their pocket.

Depends if they consider simple ID to be valid.

For example, to get a loan a driver's license is not all that is needed (at least not the loan I applied for), they need another form as well.

And it is an assumption of guilt. Having to prove that an individual is not guilty means the authorities think they are guilty.

[Deepcrush]

Are you still talking about the law from the beginning of this thread even in the least? Or have we just moved on...

[Monroe]

As one of the most liberal members on this forum it might surprise you to hear I'm actually for the Arizona Bill. It sucks yes, and it will lead to racial profiling but honestly something needs to be done and both parties are a little too cozy with illegals.

[Mikey]

Exactly. And I still don't see it as an assumption of guilt if it doesn't involve any arrest or charge until some semblance of guilt is established. I think, Stitch, that you believe a stop or detainment is the same as an arrest, charge, or indictment... which is not the case.

[stitch626]

In this case a detainment might as well be an arrest, charge, and trial all at once. As happens often with "illegals" they don't get even so much as a hearing before they get deported.
And if an individual is for some reason unable to provide documentation (for example, mentally challenged and doesn't understand the concept of ID) they will be either deported, or at the least imprisoned until the matter is sorted out.

[Mikey]

#1 - I'm willing to bet more than you have that mentally challenged individuals, if somehow left to wander the streets of Arizona unassisted, will be treated as such. BTW, my cousin with Down's Syndrome carries ID. #2 - What's wrong with deporting illegal immigrants? There's a reason, as I keep saying to deaf ears, that we're discussing illegal immigrants.

[stitch626]

There was a reason I put "". They have only been deemed illegal, doesn't mean they actually are.


For an actual RL example: my best friend's sister went to Mexico a year ago with her school for some sort of improvement project. She was adopted at the age of 4 months from Guatemala. The border police would not let her back in. They would not accept her NYS liscence, her SSN, or her adoption papers as proof of US citizenship. She was locked up for 3 days before her parents were even contacted (and by her teachers, not the police). They took the next flight down.
They wouldn't believe either the teachers (with her school records) or her parents (which is when her adoption papers were brought in). It finally took a state judge to get them to release her (which took about a week).

Filed a law suit (not sure what the actual suit was for, wasn't told). After a day, the suit was dropped because law enforcement was "doing their job".
Total cost: 2 tickets down to New Mexico and 3 back, over a week of school missed, a week of work missed for both parents, and a large amount of unnecessary stress (non monetary value).

In short, they can claim whatever they want (ie, liscence forged, SSN stolen, etc) and have it stick unless someone has a really determined outside source to help.


My friend has to keep a file with over 200 papers in it just so he can get back into the US if he ever goes to visit relatives in Denmark (mother's family).





On a related note, what is the problem with illegal immigrants (actual ones this time)? Besides the fact that they are illegal which IMO is a minor crime whose money and effort could be better spent elsewhere.

Also, anyone have an update on this US vs Arizona suit?

[Sonic Glitch]

On a related note, what is the problem with illegal immigrants (actual ones this time)? Besides the fact that they are illegal which IMO is a minor crime whose money and effort could be better spent elsewhere.

Also, anyone have an update on this US vs Arizona suit?

On another note, does anyone have numbers on their effect on the economy? Are they really harming us in any way other than coming in illegally?

[Lt. Staplic]

On a related note, what is the problem with illegal immigrants (actual ones this time)? Besides the fact that they are illegal which IMO is a minor crime whose money and effort could be better spent elsewhere.

Also, anyone have an update on this US vs Arizona suit?

On another note, does anyone have numbers on their effect on the economy? Are they really harming us in any way other than coming in illegally?

IIRC i think i remember hearing something about positive gains from them...because they do tough work really cheep....I can't remember where I heard it but they claimed the US economy could turn for the worse if we deported all of the illegal immigrants....not depression bad but it would drop

[Deepcrush]

So stitch, what does a failed border patrol have to do with lawful arrest followed by a ID check have in common?

[stitch626]

So stitch, what does a failed border patrol have to do with lawful arrest followed by a ID check have in common?

Because if they have the same attitude that the ID could simply be forged then they detain the person unnecessarily, waste his/her time, cost the individual income and the communities money.