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Mikey wrote:Here's where it gets stickier. Do you believe people have the right to believe what they wish? If so, how do you reconcile that? Mormons, for example, or certain Jehovah's Witnesses (I think) take proselytization as a cetnral tenet of their faith. It may seem like common sense to say "Believe what you want but don't promote it to others" - but by denying that promotion, you are in effect denying them the right to believe what they want.

Their rights to proselytise end where my right to be left alone begins. I don't mind too much where that line is drawn, really, but it's going to be equal both ways. If they want the unrestricted right to preach at me about religion, I'm going to assume the unrestricted right to argue atheism right back at them. Including in such public places as churches during the middle of a service.

Don't want me doing things like that? No problem, but I'll have the same from them, please.

Nickswitz wrote: Yes, It is a very central part of our faith. And so yes, it would be like saying that you can't have mass to a catholic, because it is that central a part of our faith.

There is a very significant difference. Catholics go and do their thing in a church, JW's come to your door and bother you.

Nickswitz wrote:Yes, It is a very central part of our faith. And so yes, it would be like saying that you can't have mass to a catholic, because it is that central a part of our faith.

So what happens if a Jehova's Witness team find a "No prostelitizers welcome" sign on the gate? Do they move on, or ignore it?

GrahamKennedy wrote:
So what happens if a Jehova's Witness team find a "No prostelitizers welcome" sign on the gate? Do they move on, or ignore it?

They ignore it. We had signs for years on our door when I was a kid and they still came and they still come now that I'm an adult with my own.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

GrahamKennedy wrote:
So what happens if a Jehova's Witness team find a "No prostelitizers welcome" sign on the gate? Do they move on, or ignore it?

They ignore it. We had signs for years on our door when I was a kid and they still came and they still come now that I'm an adult with my own.

Interesting. What do they say if you ask them why they ignored the sign?

GrahamKennedy wrote:
Interesting. What do they say if you ask them why they ignored the sign?

We get a couple answers:

I didn't see it.
I didn't realise it applied to us.
Oops, sorry.
Mumble something and leave.
Just launch into the speech.

Depends who comes, usually it's an old, old lady with her daughter so we get the first two.

I think we have it a lot better for that kind of thing over here. In my whole life I've only ever had them show up at my door twice. They first said they had been given my address by somebody who said he was suicidal and he lived there. I told them nope, not me, and sent them away.

The second was not long after I bought my house. I told them I was an atheist, which quite surprised them. I said I saw no evidence of a god, they asked if the fact that the world existed at all wasn't ample proof. I said no it wasn't, and they seemed to be at a bit of a loss after that. I'd have asked them in - I like religious arguments - but I'm a slobby guy, and the house was rather messy so I didn't.

And that's it. One every ten years or so, I guess!

GrahamKennedy wrote:I think we have it a lot better for that kind of thing over here. In my whole life I've only ever had them show up at my door twice. They first said they had been given my address by somebody who said he was suicidal and he lived there. I told them nope, not me, and sent them away.

The second was not long after I bought my house. I told them I was an atheist, which quite surprised them. I said I saw no evidence of a god, they asked if the fact that the world existed at all wasn't ample proof. I said no it wasn't, and they seemed to be at a bit of a loss after that. I'd have asked them in - I like religious arguments - but I'm a slobby guy, and the house was rather messy so I didn't.

And that's it. One every ten years or so, I guess!

I have the misfortune to live within 20 minutes of two Kingdom Halls, so we get a fair bit. Usually only in the summer though.

Just so you know, the "no trespassing" signs are now followed more closely. And usually, "not interested" works.

However, I'm not sure about the legality of a "no procelitizers welcome" sign. If it is an actual sign (legally recognized similar to "no trespassing"), then we try to follow it. Otherwise...

And 'no solicitation" doesn't mean a thing, because we aren't selling anything.

stitch626 wrote:Just so you know, the "no trespassing" signs are now followed more closely. And usually, "not interested" works.

However, I'm not sure about the legality of a "no procelitizers welcome" sign. If it is an actual sign (legally recognized similar to "no trespassing"), then we try to follow it. Otherwise...

And 'no solicitation" doesn't mean a thing, because we aren't selling anything.

I could not care less about the legality of the sign, if I walk up to someones door and there's a sign that says "fuck off and leave me alone", then I figure the guy doesn't want to be bothered. And frankly after the fifth time of telling the same old lady and her daughter that "I'm not interested", "I'm an athiest" or just slamming the door, I start getting annoyed. Use the damn book your carrying around and note that the guy at address xxx doesn't want us to visit.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Depends who comes, usually it's an old, old lady with her daughter so we get the first two.

Is the daughter cute? Heck, that will convince me to talk to them some more, good mammaries/memories.

The other fun I had was recommending one young woman that the part of the bible that influenced me the most was "Song of Solomon". She couldn't recall it off-hand, so I recommended she read it when she got home.

Coalition wrote: Is the daughter cute? Heck, that will convince me to talk to them some more, good mammaries/memories.

Not even close, I like mature woman but she's out of even my target demographic.

The other fun I had was recommending one young woman that the part of the bible that influenced me the most was "Song of Solomon". She couldn't recall it off-hand, so I recommended she read it when she got home.

Haha, good one.

As an aside, no offense to the boards resident JW's but I just want to be left alone. If I want a religion, I'll go get one (though I'm already a member of the Church of the Later Day Dude). So there's no need to come to me, I consider door-knockers up there with tele-marketers and people who talk at the theatre. And I'm sure everyone here can understand my desire for peace and quiet.

I take no offence at that at all, I know a lot of people at my school who if I knocked on their doors they would probably tell me to get the F*** of their property. So your not the only person I know who will directly tell me to go away because I annoy the crap out of them, lol.

I had a few short debates (about blindly following interpretations of the bible versus interpreting and gaining from it yourself; I am most assuredly not an Atheist, though I do respect the perspective) with the Witnesses, and also a local group of Presbyterians who also go door to door for some reason. I'm with GK: I would've invited them in to continue the conversation, but my apartment is messy, and my dogs don't like strangers.

One thing is for sure; they're either very courageous, or very stupid to go knocking on doors in this neighborhood.

Out of curiosity, why do you (JWs) actualy go around to peoples' houses? At a wild guess, I imagine about 95% of people either tell you to go away, or just pretend to listen and find the first possible excuse to escape the conversation for fear of being rude.
Wouldn't it be far more effective to simply rent out an advertisement in the local newspaper, and organise meetings once a week in a gym, or something? At the very least, it would counter the negativity towards JWs, by removing the stereotypical actions that people dislike them for.

Personaly, I've never had anyone bother me at home (or anywhere, for that matter) purely to try to get me to convert. Nor do I know anyone who's ever experienced that over here. The closest thing I've ever experienced to that was walking down O'Connel Street when some guy with a megaphone was preaching about how we must all convert to Catholicism or we're going to burn in hell, etc, etc. On the other hand, the very anoyed looking group of Guards that were heading quickly in his direction leads me to believe he was kicked out of the area rather quickly.