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Duskofdead wrote: The Prime Directive forbid the Federation from becoming involved in the Klingon Civil War, for instance.

And yet, they did.

They prevented someone ELSE from getting involved, which is a different story.

They prevented someone ELSE from getting involved, which is a different story.

You can argue that point but, involving themselves to stop someone else from becoming involved still gets them involved, they didn't pick any sides (officially) but they were still involved.

If advanced aliens we are not aware of stop third party aliens from attacking the part of the galaxy in which Earth resides, have they involved themselves in our affairs, or interfered in them? I know this is getting broad, my point is, there is a difference between non-interference in the way the PD means it, and utterly ignoring aliens, hiding from them, trying to make them not know you exist. And yes Starfleet treads on the fine line in between on occasion.

Exactly! The PD has been left open to interpretation by individuals. One captain might apply it in the spirit it was intended; another may use it as an excuse to avoid rendering assistance. If it's going to be in use, it needs to be concretized and then enforced unilaterally.

I think this kind of thing shows a major fault in the way Starfleet operates. We are constantly shown how individual officers, however senior they may be, are allowed to dictate policy, or disobey orders from Starfleet without discipline. Obviously you don't want a Fleet of people who are too scared to bend the rules but Sisko tells the Cardassians the Klingons are going to attack against Starfleet's orders, stabbing an ally in the back; he launches WMDs on another planet, it may have been in retaliation to their actions but Starfleet didn't seem to care to much. These can't simply be explained away by some report, they are clear violations of Starfleet policy and potentially interstellar law/agreements.

It is not surprising that Starfleet doesn't enforce the PD or any other regulations in its books though, throughout all the shows IIRC we have only seen one actual JAG Officer (The Measure of a Man), I can't remember if we had any in TOS during the various Trials but if memory serves they were just serving line officers with professional, non-Starfleet lawyers. Obviously there would be more of these throughout the Federation but it is surprising that we have never seen one aboard a ship or at a base when laws are broken. In fact whenever someone breaks a rule they are arbitrarily sent to the Brig/demoted/whatever else the Captain feels like that day. There doesn't appear to ever be any follow up to these incidents, no independent report (regarding the more serious ones, save Drumhead), in fact these officers seem to get promoted along at the same pace as everyone else so a reprimand in the persons file doesn't even seem to mean anything.

*snip KuvahMagh*

Bingo. Further than that - in TNG:"The Drumhead," a diplomat - NOT an officer - was allowed, even encouraged, to run investigations, hearings, and convene a court-martial!

Exactly, Starfleet needs to get serious about this kind of stuff if they want to become a professional organization because in my opinion they are still a bunch of amateurs running around in matching sweaters. At least 1 JAG Officer should be appointed to all ships, if nothing else to advise the Captain on grey type area situations. As it stands Officers have to know their own job, the general jobs around them and also the entire Federation legal code along with any of the Planets they might visit, it is no wonder that they don't have time for Tactical Training...

They should at the very least be present on those long term into the unknown type missions and those possible first contact/primitive observation missions where they could provide legal advice regarding not only the law itself but past precedences in similar situations which could very much effect a Captain's decision.

Starfleet officers tend to be expected to do a bit of everything.

But they should still be held accountable to adhering to a standard.

And given professional advice to enable the best possible decision in a given situation. Starfleet Captains might be expected to know general laws and they obviously have the ability to look them up but without someone who has trained in the field any picture they will draw will be incomplete.

KuvahMagh wrote:And given professional advice to enable the best possible decision in a given situation. Starfleet Captains might be expected to know general laws and they obviously have the ability to look them up but without someone who has trained in the field any picture they will draw will be incomplete.

Once again I feel compelled to point out that a US CVN has a legal division, not a single JAG officer but a division. What's Picard got...Troi.

BTW Lt. Areel Shaw from the TOS episode Court Martial was the first JAG officer seen onscreen IIRC.

I think the reason they haven't assigned one blanket standard regarding the PD and uniform enforcement of punishment for violations is because Starfleet recognizes that application of the PD is heavily dependant upon the context and particulars of a given situation. Many times, for instance, something appeared to be a PD situation but later developments changed the scenario (i.e. Romulans involved in Klingon Civil War, etc.) Starfleet has a very hard time coming up with a set rubric of exactly what parameters to set for PD situations so it vests a lot of discretionary authority in its captains. PD situations are usually significant enough that even one situation stepping outside of established guidelines due to unusual or unique circumstances could be disastrous if a captain were required to stay on the safe side and not interfere.

In other words, I think in Starfleet's eyes if you needed a JAG officer following all your captains around, then you haven't promoted people trustworthy enough with the level of confidence to handle PD discretion situations to the rank of captain.

Mikey wrote:Bingo. Further than that - in TNG:"The Drumhead," a diplomat - NOT an officer - was allowed, even encouraged, to run investigations, hearings, and convene a court-martial!

Huh? What are you talking about? The investigations were held by Norah Satie, a Starfleet Rear Admiral.

And for that matter, where was the court martial?

In other words, I think in Starfleet's eyes if you needed a JAG officer following all your captains around, then you haven't promoted people trustworthy enough with the level of confidence to handle PD discretion situations to the rank of captain.

Data, an android who should know what to do answers a primitive Call as a Lt. Commander, as an Ensign, Harry Kim knew even after only 4 years of experience that you don't answer. Was an investigation launched into Data's initial screw up, nope, Picard was allowed to ignore it and use continuing transmissions, which likely wouldn't have happened in the way they did had it not been for Data's violation of the PD, to justify interfering.

Crusher was allowed to beam up wounded primitives even though they were unsure how they would react to her memory wipe, had these people have been left they would have died, it would have been unfortunate but it would not have led to the creation of a religion and kidnapping of Federation citizens along with the assault of a senior officer. Once again was there any kind of investigation into why they were beamed up in the first place, nope, they just went along on their merry way.

Worf, who seems to love violating the Directive kills a Klingon leadership contender, thus changing the course of history for not only the Klingons but virtually every Species in the Alpha/Beta neighborhood at least. A few years later he decided he didn't like the crazed dictator he installed with the previous action then kills him and installs a new leader, I know they say the perfect form of Government is Democracy tempered with Assassination but this is ridiculous. Does this effect his career in any way? Not really, granted it took a while to make Lt. Commander these issues are never brought up again or investigated in any meaningful way, in one case he is given a lecture from Picard, boy that fits the crime, and on the other everyone seems to congratulate him.

It is hard to believe that each of these can be justified by 'changing situations', particularly the first one regarding Data.

Of course the most prevalent of them all, the crew of the USS Voyager who seemed to feel it was their personal duty to break every rule, regulation and law in the Federation/Starfleet. And what do we do to this Captain when she returns, surely we investigate her actions, throw her out of the Fleet, toss her in the Brig, give a stern talking to by Picard? Nope we promote her, seemingly bypassing a Rank on the way, and post her to a position of authority over the other big offender, the Crew of the Enterprise, a fitting end to the Prime Directive as we know it...