Obama To Propose Major Infrastructure Overhaul

[Deepcrush]

That's probably because the only RPGs they've been going up against for the last couple of decades are thirty year old Soviet exports. I'd wager that a well-placed modern RPG could punch through a weak point.

This could be possible.

[SolkaTruesilver]

That's probably because the only RPGs they've been going up against for the last couple of decades are thirty year old Soviet exports. I'd wager that a well-placed modern RPG could punch through a weak point.

Who would use a modern RPG that would fight an American or British tank?

I doubt there has been a combat situation where it occured in the past 10 years. For some reason, countries with high-grade military hardwares don't seem to attack each other. I think we can be thankful

[Tyyr]

Depends on what we're talking about. Man portable disposable RPGs or full on ATGMs.

That said the most likely chance a guy with an RPG has of damaging a tank is a shot into the rear or from above into the engine compartment. Most likely result from either is a dead engine and a stationary tank. The chances of a guy with a shoulder fired RPG of any vintage killing the crew of a modern MBT or getting it to brew up are just about jack shit. You have to start getting into top attack munitions like the Javelin or late model TOWs to have a chance of well and truly "killing" a modern MBT.

[Sionnach Glic]

Who would use a modern RPG that would fight an American or British tank?

No one who's interested in getting into a fight with any nation capable of building state-of-the-art tanks.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Who would use a modern RPG that would fight an American or British tank?

No one who's interested in getting into a fight with any nation capable of building state-of-the-art tanks.

Pretty much. I guess having strong economical security that allows you to afford high-tech toys also makes you vulnerable to economy-crippling strikes.

So the tanks are pretty much invincible against infantry?

[Mikey]

So the tanks are pretty much invincible against infantry?

There are people on here who are more expert than I regarding modern warfare, but I can tell you this: considering yourself invincible - in any situation - is a sure way to leave the battlefield feet-first. While a Challenger, M1, even a Leopard may be pretty well proof against an RPG-7, for example, there is always the Javelin, Dragon, or Charlie-Gusto out there which can take you apart from the top. In any event, even if your armor is proof against that RPG, you're taking a chance when you suddenly find yourself ambushed by 5 or 6 of them.

[Tyyr]

Depends on what you want to do. If you want to make the tank cease to exist. Yeah, pretty much. If you have less grandiose designs they're do able. Mobility kills are entirely possible, and a satchel charge in the turret ring is your best shot at serious permanent damage but you've gotta get past the tank's infantry support to do it. If the infantry has a modern ATGM then they have pretty decent odds of getting the job done.

[Sionnach Glic]

IIRC, a number of Abrams tanks were temporarily knocked out of action during the First Gulf War.

And then there was the incident during Iraqi Freedom where the driver of an Abrams was killed by a sniper, and the tank plunged into a river, killing the crew. Though that's obviously something that's unlikely to happen all that often.

There are ways of taking out even the most well-armoured of tanks, however. The treads can be wrecked, leading to the tank being rendered imobile until they're repaired. Or, if the mine/rocket/whatever you used caused enough damage, it might put the tank out of action for a week or two. You could also wreck the sights on the exterior of the tank itself. They are by necessity unarmoured, and while it won't take the tank off the battlefield, it'll render the crew blind unless they want to stick their heads out. As Tyyr points out, you could do some damage to the turret ring with a well placed bomb (or an exceptionaly lucky shot). Then there's the simply but still effective "dig a big pit and hope they fall into it" tactic.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I said "pretty much" invincible, not "absolutely" invincible. I mean, lucky shots always can happen and doom the most powerful juggernauts. that's what killed the Bismarck (I think...).

But, if you take out the one in a thousand shots, and you add the fact that tanks are usually not alone (again, I think. Please correct me if wrong), which means even a immobilized tank would have firecover from either support infantry (if available) or other tanks in his column. You don't leave such piece of mobile real estate along as a sitting duck, methink.

So, if you have a column of tank going against infantry, beside slowing down the advance and managing to jam a few of your tank, you can heartily expect to be steamrolling them.

(Out of topic: I just saw Transformer 1 for the first time. Favourite Part of the movie = the Humans kicking robotic asses and actually having an impact)

[Sionnach Glic]

I said "pretty much" invincible, not "absolutely" invincible. I mean, lucky shots always can happen and doom the most powerful juggernauts. that's what killed the Bismarck (I think...).

Actually, the Bismarck was destroyed because it was a spectacularly mediocre ship going up against pretty much the entire Royal Navy. But I get the point you were making.

But, if you take out the one in a thousand shots, and you add the fact that tanks are usually not alone (again, I think. Please correct me if wrong), which means even a immobilized tank would have firecover from either support infantry (if available) or other tanks in his column. You don't leave such piece of mobile real estate along as a sitting duck, methink.

Precisely. It'd be quite rare for a tank to be wandering around the place on its own (though there was an incident in OIF where a US tank did get separated from its unit and wandered around the desert on its own for a while until the Brits found it). AFAIK, tanks are usually deployed in groups. In any other case they'd have infantry support.

So, if you have a column of tank going against infantry, beside slowing down the advance and managing to jam a few of your tank, you can heartily expect to be steamrolling them.

Pretty much. You're not going to hold off a determined assault from any first-world nation just by blowing the treads or sights off a few tanks. The best you could hope for would be to delay an advance by damaging enough tanks that the unit in question decides to hold its position and wait for its vehicles to be repaired before pressing on again.

[Sionnach Glic]

And the thread has been split again. Bismarck discussion split to here.