Japanese ram what may be the next ST movie ship

[Sionnach Glic]

As for providing whale meat to children, that appears to be more than just having to dump stock. Actually it's kinda interesting.

Hm, interesting. Thanks for that.

And apparently she has sunk while under tow.

*points and laughs*

Part of me has little moral issue with hunting them anyway, it's only what a predator does. However we probably hunt them far too much. However, the Sea Sheperds do indeed seem like total twats.

I've no problem with hunting animals. What I do have a problem with is knowingly hunting endangered animals, which could easily result in their extinction.

Minke whales are not endangered or close to it. The antarctic ones the Japanese hunt number some 660,000.

In that case they can feel free to go nuts on the Minke whales.

Of course, the question is now whether or not Minke whales are the only whales that the Japanese go after.

Technically, they're not, as they're not generally attempting to steal anything. However, I understand what you're saying. I'm not voicing my desire - I think if these guys are dedicated/loony enough to put themselves out there, then they deserve whatever they get. However, just because a guy acts like a nut doesn't mean his nation will alow him to be killed without making a real, tangible stink. Remember, being loony for a purported cause plays a lot better in the news than just being loony.

Well, the Japanese don't seem particularly bothered by international opposition to their activities as it is. I doubt a bunch of Sea-PETA activists getting gunned down for throwing acid at the crew are going to warrant more than a stern talking to.

[Mikey]

Well they've stolen the credibility of the eco movement, does that count?

Wait, there was some left after the Sierra Club got through with it?

[Reliant121]

Who necessarily needs to shoot a crew member? Riddle a few rifle rounds in the hull, or across the bow and hopefully the Whalehuggers will get the picture. Better yet, park one of the old DE's the Maritime defense for uses, amybe the JDS Ishikari out there with the whaling fleet. I'd like to see the reaction of the hippy terrorists when they have that horrible sea grey hull coming at them.

[sunnyside]

@Kendall

I figured I'd have heard more of a stink if they were horribly disfiguring crewmembers so I looked into the acid business. They're throwing Butyric acid. With it's Ph you should be able to take a bath in the stuff and be fine and it's a common food additive that we all probably eat every day.

It's just that it smells bad when on its own. They're just throwing stink bombs. Which might be inconvenient for the crew, but I think what they're shooting for is lost productivity and meat that can't be sold. Both of which hit the bottom line.

In any case your accusation of "throwing acid" is like accusing some chick in a bar of throwing acid on you if she pitched a glass of Pepsi in your face.

Regarding Minke whales. I think there are questions of subspecies and specific population groups. However I do think some form of commercial whaling could be done with them. However to prevent the overharvesting that was going on it's illegal in most of the world to get at the tasty meat. I'd support some equitable and ecologically sustainable resolution of the matter.

But Japan should reall back off on hunting the endagered species.

[Mikey]

I can't imagine that harvesting Minke whales has anywhere near the reward:effort ratio that hunting the big boys has.

BTW, we used to do the same thing with nitric acid in chem lab - dilute enough, it doesn't burn... but it stains the target's skin piss-yellow for days.

[Tyyr]

That's part of the reason the industry isn't profitable and they have to be subsidized. Though minke whale's behaviors make them a bit easier to locate and harvest than something like a sperm whale. Of course most of the big boys are endangered and if you think people are crying in their cornflakes over whales that aren't even endangered try hauling a big blue up the processing ship's ramp.

[Aaron]

@Kendall

I figured I'd have heard more of a stink if they were horribly disfiguring crewmembers so I looked into the acid business. They're throwing Butyric acid. With it's Ph you should be able to take a bath in the stuff and be fine and it's a common food additive that we all probably eat every day.

It's just that it smells bad when on its own. They're just throwing stink bombs. Which might be inconvenient for the crew, but I think what they're shooting for is lost productivity and meat that can't be sold. Both of which hit the bottom line.

In any case your accusation of "throwing acid" is like accusing some chick in a bar of throwing acid on you if she pitched a glass of Pepsi in your face.

Regarding Minke whales. I think there are questions of subspecies and specific population groups. However I do think some form of commercial whaling could be done with them. However to prevent the overharvesting that was going on it's illegal in most of the world to get at the tasty meat. I'd support some equitable and ecologically sustainable resolution of the matter.

But Japan should reall back off on hunting the endagered species.

Even if the acid is harmless, their still incredible dicks who are going to get someone killed. I wouldn't object if it was them but chances are it won't be.

Honestly though, I'm not sure what the hell the Japanese think their doing, I know the Norwegians try to make theirs sustainable but so far I haven't heard the same about the Japanese.

[Tyyr]

That's the thing though. The Japanese average about 500 minke's a year from a population of 770,000+. They harvest about 0.06% of the population per year. They're not exactly slashing and burning the whale population. Their bag limit on whales is set by the IWC in order to provide a statistically significant sample without hurting the total whale population.

[Aaron]

So it's just a manufactured issue that people can parade around and be dicks about, nice.

[Tyyr]

Yeah, pretty much. Not to mention the Norwegians have a bag limit of over 1,000 whales on a population of only 107,000. So the Norwegian influence on their local population if over 11 times that of the Japanese on the southern minke populations. But then again, the Norwegians are also white northern Europeans.

See that's the problem. You're looking at this all wrong. You're applying logic and reason to this. You're arriving at the obvious conclusion, that the Japanese effect on whale populations is pretty much negligible and the assholes harassing them over it are idiots. Now if you'd kindly turn off your brain and think with your heart maybe you could go "DAWWWWW dem meany yellow people are hurtin da purdy and smart whales! Oh NOES!"

[Tyyr]

The dakkadakka thread, enjoy.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 72710.page

[Mikey]

If that's your take - that everyone who is against whaling is an sinophobic bigot - then I'm forced to ask why you posted all that info pertaining to how useless and near-fraudulent the Japanese whaling business is. Further, I think you're rather naive if you honestly believe that Japanese whaling is limited to those few reported Minke whales. If so, why does the Japanese whaling concern continue its loud - yet universally-regarded as false - claim that every whale it takes is for "scientific research?"

BTW - I know this will shock you, but all of the following are true:
a) I am anti-whaling.
b) I am NOT a bigot, against the Japanese or any other cultural or national group.
c) Despite point "a," I do not support the devices of groups like Sea Shepherd.

[Tyyr]

If that's your take - that everyone who is against whaling is an sinophobic bigot -

If you've got another explanation as to why the Norwegians don't even bother to pretend they're doing research and have over 11 times more impact on their local population of whales and yet all this focus is being aimed at the Japanese please present it. Because logically the Norwegians are FAR more dangerous to their whale populations than the Japanese and yet I can't recall the last time I heard anything about Norwegian whaling.

then I'm forced to ask why you posted all that info pertaining to how useless and near-fraudulent the Japanese whaling business is.

Why does one exclude the other? Yes, I believe the Japanese program is mearly a front for commercial whaling and don't care for it specifically because of that. I also believe that whaling is by and large a non-viable industry which only makes keeping it going even more ridiculous. However I don't believe that the Japanese whaling industry as it exists now is any real threat to the populations they hunt. I posted all that information because I think that most people taking part in this debate have next to no information about it. So in order to head off the empty headed think with your heart stupidity I decided to start taking a look at the reality of the situation. What I found I posted. I freely admit I knew jackshit about this until I started digging.

Further, I think you're rather naive if you honestly believe that Japanese whaling is limited to those few reported Minke whales.

I'll cross post this bit from dakka since it answers this exactly.

That's the number they are harvesting for research. That's the only whaling they are known to do. In fact they usually don't even fill their allowable quota from the IWC. They have no need to try and hide extras when they're leaving ~300 whales a year off their tag. Why generate even more bad publicity by harvesting outside their quota when they could simply take another 300 without violating the IWC permit? Additionally, the figure of approximately 3,000 tons of whale being consumed annually meshes quite well with the quantity of whales that they harvest under their research permits. So unless you're suggesting some huge underground whale meat black market that's how many whales they're taking.

If so, why does the Japanese whaling concern continue its loud - yet universally-regarded as false - claim that every whale it takes is for "scientific research?"

I dunno. Most likely because they signed the moratorium thinking they could do it without harassment and they don't want the bad PR now of coming out and saying "Well we lied, this has always been just for whaling".

BTW - I know this will shock you, but all of the following are true:

Not particularly shocking. The fact that people can't be perfectly divided into pro and con groups or any other black vs. white designation isn't catching me off guard. Especially since that's pretty much the story of every debate I've ever been in.

[Tyyr]

Ugh, I failed at math. The Norwegians harvest 0.93% of the population, about 12 times what the Japanese do of the southern populations.

[Mikey]

If you've got another explanation as to why the Norwegians don't even bother to pretend they're doing research and have over 11 times more impact on their local population of whales and yet all this focus is being aimed at the Japanese please present it. Because logically the Norwegians are FAR more dangerous to their whale populations than the Japanese and yet I can't recall the last time I heard anything about Norwegian whaling.

Misinformation? Bad PR? You make an excellent point that the Japanese are singled out while there are other offenders, but that's a long leap of faith away from "anti-whaling = sinophobe."

Why does one exclude the other? Yes, I believe the Japanese program is mearly a front for commercial whaling and don't care for it specifically because of that. I also believe that whaling is by and large a non-viable industry which only makes keeping it going even more ridiculous. However I don't believe that the Japanese whaling industry as it exists now is any real threat to the populations they hunt. I posted all that information because I think that most people taking part in this debate have next to no information about it. So in order to head off the empty headed think with your heart stupidity I decided to start taking a look at the reality of the situation. What I found I posted. I freely admit I knew jackshit about this until I started digging.

One does not exclude the other. It's just atypical to see someone arguing one side of an issue while providing evidence for the other side.

I'll cross post this bit from dakka since it answers this exactly. ...

I was referring more to the likelihood of Japanese whalers taking examples of endangered species, rather than to a misrepresentation of the number of allowed types.