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Tsukiyumi wrote:Like I said, without extracurriculars, community service, and scholarships, you can't get into a real college. I'm unsure how old you are, but when my college prospects came up in the late '90s, those were the conditions, and now, it's even worse.

Got accepted to college in 1999. Good grades, no scholarships (white males don't exactly have a lot available) no real community service, no real extracurriculars aside from swimming on the swim team. I got in just fine, first try, to my first choice school.

Tsukiyumi wrote:You can bust ass as much as you want in High School, and if you don't have the required extracurriculars and community service, you don't get accepted into any decent college. All High School proves is how good you are at conforming; my aptitude tests were in the top 2 percentile, and my I.Q. put me well above the majority of the world. Just because endless paperwork and kissing ass wasn't my thing, I didn't get to graduate. Again, I don't know how things were where you went to school, maybe they rewarded knowledge, and didn't force you to do meaningless repetitive bullsh*t.

What kind of asskissing do you have to do to graduate high school? And yeah, high school is meaningless repetitive bullshit, so's a lot of college. But if you want the degree you play their game and do it. They can make your life annoying for a couple years but once you get the diploma their crap and control of your life is over.

Your blanket statement that it doesn't matter "where you're from or what school you went to" seems to demonstrate a lack of knowledge regarding school systems outside of your state/county/district. Things are not the same everywhere, due to different levels of funding, curriculum, demographics, etc.

Yeah things are different, I know there are a hell of a lot better schools than I went to and worse ones too. If you want a college education you do what you have to in order to get one. It may take sacrifices or work but you do it. Some people have it rougher than others no doubt. Sometimes you might have to go over and above just doing good in highschool. Again, do what it takes.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Capt. Jethro wrote:Oh, this is a great thread. Nothing like a good dose of different opinions.

Well, mine at least, is complemented by a healthy dose of facts.

Don't get saucy with me Bernaise. (History of the World Part I) 8)

Both sides can pull out facts to support their arguments. It all depends on where they get their info and who crunched the statistical data.

Tyyr wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:Like I said, without extracurriculars, community service, and scholarships, you can't get into a real college. I'm unsure how old you are, but when my college prospects came up in the late '90s, those were the conditions, and now, it's even worse.

Got accepted to college in 1999. Good grades, no scholarships (white males don't exactly have a lot available) no real community service, no real extracurriculars aside from swimming on the swim team. I got in just fine, first try, to my first choice school.

When I looked into it, you had to have at least some extracurriculars. 1999 here as well. Like I said, I couldn't afford any of that.

Tyyr wrote: *snip Tyyr*

Like you said, it's repetitive bullsh*t. So, because I seriously couldn't handle that, I just get what I get, right? If you won't conform, you don't deserve any help from society?

A year or so from now, I'll be laughing at that. It's a good joke.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Mikey wrote:...if I lived in a country with universal healthcare - as in most of Continental Europe - I'd either be dead, in a coma, or in a wheelchair by now.

Thanks to living here, I'll be in a wheelchair within the next decade. Not that I'm comparing my injury to your condition, Mikey; I'm well aware that yours is life-threatening, while mine is only severely crippling.

I don't get into pissing contests about it.

My point has never been to say that national health care is wrong and fully-private care is right; just this:

Many people like to say that private care is evil, simply because it's a for-profit business and because some people have gotten the shaft. Many of those people also like to say that universal care is the end-all, be-all, because it's different. I just like to point out to those people that private health care does have its positive qualities and national care has its negatives, despite whatever jingoism people like to mention.

Mikey wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Mikey wrote:...if I lived in a country with universal healthcare - as in most of Continental Europe - I'd either be dead, in a coma, or in a wheelchair by now.

Thanks to living here, I'll be in a wheelchair within the next decade. Not that I'm comparing my injury to your condition, Mikey; I'm well aware that yours is life-threatening, while mine is only severely crippling.

I don't get into pissing contests about it.

My point has never been to say that national health care is wrong and fully-private care is right; just this:

Many people like to say that private care is evil, simply because it's a for-profit business and because some people have gotten the shaft. Many of those people also like to say that universal care is the end-all, be-all, because it's different. I just like to point out to those people that private health care does have its positive qualities and national care has its negatives, despite whatever jingoism people like to mention.

Agreed. There's certainly no guarantee that I'd get any help with a "universal" health care system either.

Lazar wrote:A lot of good points.

I'll be honest. You've got good points and I can see where you're coming from. I don't agree though. I don't think either of us is going to change the other's mind. So in order to avoid driving this deep into territory, how about we agree to disagree. We've both voiced our opinions, lets just let it end.

Sounds good to me, especially since I can continue skewering your points all day.

By tomorrow, I won't be so angry, though, and probably won't want to keep at it.

Ok, now is the time to break out the Roumulan Ale and Bloodwine.

Actually I have enjoyed reading both sides of the debate. Everyone has tried to write their thoughts as best as they can. It's the moderators call, but as long as someone doesn't start acting like a complete jerk then this is good stuff.

As I have always said, this is why I like visiting this forum so much. Keeps ya thinking.

Capt. Jethro wrote:It's the moderators call, but as long as someone doesn't start acting like a complete jerk then this is good stuff.

I may be biased because I've been involved, but there's nothing here to moderate. Debate and argument are welcome; it's idiocy and jerky-ness that aren't.

Yeah I have enjoyed this debate. I think Tyyr is our first real conservative member and its great to see some debate like this. Usually we debate things from moderates to Liberals. Adding the conservative viewpoint is great.

Monroe wrote:Yeah I have enjoyed this debate. I think Tyyr is our first real conservative member and its great to see some debate like this. Usually we debate things from moderates to Liberals. Adding the conservative viewpoint is great.

Yeah it is nice to have someone more conservative than I am.

And this didn't become the insanity I was waiting for. Whew.

Tyyr wrote:I'll be honest. You've got good points and I can see where you're coming from. I don't agree though. I don't think either of us is going to change the other's mind. So in order to avoid driving this deep into territory, how about we agree to disagree. We've both voiced our opinions, lets just let it end.

I agree - we each have different political perspectives (e.g. social democratic versus libertarian or conservative), and no one's argument will ever be perfect. As Monroe and Jethro observed, I think it's been a good discussion, and it's always great to have a diversity of opinion.

Monroe wrote:Yeah I have enjoyed this debate. I think Tyyr is our first real conservative member who isn't a holocaust denier or right-wing board spammer and its great to see some debate like this.

Fixed for early forum memories.

Mikey wrote:

Monroe wrote:Yeah I have enjoyed this debate. I think Tyyr is our first real conservative member who isn't a holocaust denier or right-wing board spammer and its great to see some debate like this.

Fixed for early forum memories.