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Atekimogus wrote: I guess but more that most people think that to achieve the effects you describe - working together economically for instance - some sort of super-nation is not required, merley cooperation in those fields like it was working until now. The euro-zone for example (countries with the Euro as currency) works resonably well just with the countries involved working together saying we want to do that.

Europe is a very old continent with a deep history and every nation is a more or less liked member of the family one would fiercly defend against any outsider, nevertheless you do not marry within the family. If that means beeing king of an anthill, so be it.

Alright in theory you don't need something like that. However in practice you do. For example the farm thing in the other article I posted. Now whether they should or not is a whole other discussion. But lets say that it would be a good thing if supply could be controlled. If you want to control supply through something like ethanol subsidies as the US does now, "federal land" that isn't farmed as the US used to do, or quotas as they proposed you need some way to get all the member countries working together. If only one little country steps back their supply it won't achieve anything at all in the larger market.

As I understand it, previous treaties involved lowering trade and other barriers between EU countries. The new treaty is about having a way to get the countries to act in concert in order to achieve more economically and geopolitically.

sunnyside wrote:and geopolitically.

That's the sticky wicket. Economically, fine; that was, after all, the whole purpose of the EU. But coercion to act in concert politically? Why should Ireland, or Germany, or Belgium, or anyone be constrained by treaty to act in a way that may or may not reflect the best interests of that nation or the will of its people?

sunnyside wrote: As I understand it, previous treaties involved lowering trade and other barriers between EU countries. The new treaty is about having a way to get the countries to act in concert in order to achieve more economically and geopolitically.

There is no way to achieve more cooperation economically. Most of the EU is already one big united market with no trade barriers whatsoever sharing even the same fracking currency.

So if you are not looking for an excuse to play the "lets send troops into countries they dont belong to" game there is - at least from my pov - no reason to harmonise foreign affairs of the member states.