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Tsukiyumi wrote:So, every IRA member killed civilians? Or do you mean that was simply their modus operandi?

Not every IRA member killed a civilian, but the organisation itself never had any real problem with killing them if they thought it was to their benefit.

Tsukiyumi wrote:I thought in the Micheal Collins era that the fight was with the British occupation forces, not it's citizens... Maybe my knowledge of the subject is rusty

Back in the twenties the war was indeed directed at British forces. But civilians who helped them or who the IRA thought was a threat to them were fair game. Collins himself ordered the murder of an elderly acountant when he discovered that the acountant had stumbled across IRA bank acounts. They were just a lot more careful about who they killed back then, due to the fact that they needed the support of the Irish people to succeed.

Rochey wrote:Back in the twenties the war was indeed directed at British forces. But civilians who helped them or who the IRA thought was a threat to them were fair game. Collins himself ordered the murder of an elderly acountant when he discovered that the acountant had stumbled across IRA bank acounts. They were just a lot more careful about who they killed back then, due to the fact that they needed the support of the Irish people to succeed.

Well, that's pretty damn distasteful. And, that's crossing the line into terrorism. S'ok though: he was gunned down in an ambush.

I'm still awaiting the US government rounding up the bastards from America who funded the IRA, after all under the patriot act they are terrorists. As for the bollocks about the IRA being some sort of happy bunch of freedom fighters, I don't know what planet you live on. The standard IRA tactic was to plant bombs in public places, for example the Arndale Centre in Manchester. In my mind they're just as bad as the people who flew plains into the world trade center.

IanKennedy wrote:I'm still awaiting the US government rounding up the bastards from America who funded the IRA, after all under the patriot act they are terrorists. As for the bollocks about the IRA being some sort of happy bunch of freedom fighters, I don't know what planet you live on. The standard IRA tactic was to plant bombs in public places, for example the Arndale Centre in Manchester. In my mind they're just as bad as the people who flew plains into the world trade center.

Silly Ian, the Patriot Act only applies to brown people.

Didn't the IRA also used to mortar public places out of vans?

IanKennedy wrote:I'm still awaiting the US government rounding up the bastards from America who funded the IRA, after all under the patriot act they are terrorists. As for the bollocks about the IRA being some sort of happy bunch of freedom fighters, I don't know what planet you live on. The standard IRA tactic was to plant bombs in public places, for example the Arndale Centre in Manchester. In my mind they're just as bad as the people who flew plains into the world trade center.

I agree; people who kill defenseless civilians should be rounded up and shot. And if they had monetary help from people here, those people should be tossed in jail. Or shot.

I didn't know any Americans collaborated; I guess that's the sort of thing the government doesn't like to disseminate.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

IanKennedy wrote:I'm still awaiting the US government rounding up the bastards from America who funded the IRA, after all under the patriot act they are terrorists. As for the bollocks about the IRA being some sort of happy bunch of freedom fighters, I don't know what planet you live on. The standard IRA tactic was to plant bombs in public places, for example the Arndale Centre in Manchester. In my mind they're just as bad as the people who flew plains into the world trade center.

I agree; people who kill defenseless civilians should be rounded up and shot. And if they had monetary help from people here, those people should be tossed in jail. Or shot.

I didn't know any Americans collaborated; I guess that's the sort of thing the government doesn't like to disseminate.

It's a well known fact that most of the funding for the IRA came from the good old USA. New York was a good source of funding as it had a large 'Irish' population.

I didn't know that.

Also, I slipped up on that last post; I meant to say 'murder', not 'kill'.

Dad was out in Belfast when they were bombing out there, it wasn't natural to him being a sailor. But he was nonetheless assigned to the peacekeeping forces. He has told me little bits of what it was like. Every vehicle that parked up had to be stayed clear of, because there might be a motion sensor bomb underneath it. every person, even small children, was a possible threat. Every night there was a threat of a grenade or a bomb going off in the building they went to. He was ordered to aim his weapon, some form of assault rifle I think, at a car as it passed no matter who was in it after a recent attack.. He was also ordered to shoot anyone on sight if they ran toward him, whatsoever. They had to stop a truck at one point, as it had come from Southern Ireland. it had a few weapons and munitions in, which had sailed over from the America's into a southern irish port.

Reliant121 wrote:Dad was out in Belfast when they were bombing out there, it wasn't natural to him being a sailor. But he was nonetheless assigned to the peacekeeping forces. He has told me little bits of what it was like. Every vehicle that parked up had to be stayed clear of, because there might be a motion sensor bomb underneath it. every person, even small children, was a possible threat. Every night there was a threat of a grenade or a bomb going off in the building they went to. He was ordered to aim his weapon, some form of assault rifle I think, at a car as it passed no matter who was in it after a recent attack.. He was also ordered to shoot anyone on sight if they ran toward him, whatsoever. They had to stop a truck at one point, as it had come from Southern Ireland. it had a few weapons and munitions in, which had sailed over from the America's into a southern irish port.

Sounds exactly like Iraq, at least according to my buddy who served over there.

Tsukiyumi wrote:
Sounds exactly like Iraq, at least according to my buddy who served over there.

Pretty similar to every insurgency; Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo. And people wonder why lots of Vets absolutely hate whatever nationality they had to deal with.

Dad isn't too bad with the Irish. He has gained a very strong distaste of firearms though. Afterward when the Campbeltown made port in America somewhere, he got pulled over for speeding (he was driving a hired van full of drunken sailors away from a pub, desperately trying to get back). Course, since the Matlo's in the back were being rowdy as hell the officer drew his gun. Dad damn near had a panic attack, and started hyperventilating.

IanKennedy wrote:In my mind they're just as bad as the people who flew plains into the world trade center.

In some ways, the IRA were worse than AQ, and more effective - I'd rather run the risk of a massive attack like the WTC once in a blue moon than the risk of a small bomb in every other dustbin.

Cpl Kendall wrote:Didn't the IRA also used to mortar public places out of vans?

They did, and became rather effective at it - they dropped a few rounds into the garden of 10 Downing Street during the first Gulf War.

Tsukiyumi wrote:I agree; people who kill defenseless civilians should be rounded up and shot.

1) Why waste time rounding the bastards up?

2) Why limit it to those who kill civilians. Murder remains murder, regardless of who the victim is. A fact you seem unable to grasp

I didn't know any Americans collaborated; I guess that's the sort of thing the government doesn't like to disseminate.

The IRA's strategy during the late 80s and early 90s was called "The Armalite and the Ballot Box". Where do you think they got the Armalites from?

People from the UK generally think of the Irish people separately from the IRA. It's stupid to discriminate against an entire nation for the actions of a few bastards.

Captain Seafort wrote:...Murder remains murder, regardless of who the victim is.

Patent nonsense. Shooting Ted Bundy in the face isn't remotely the same thing as shooting a kid in the face. A fact which you seem unable to gr- wait, almost plagiarized you there. I'll go with "You don't seem to get it".

Tsukiyumi wrote:
Patent nonsense. Shooting Ted Bundy in the face isn't remotely the same thing as shooting a kid in the face. A fact which you seem unable to gr- wait, almost plagiarized you there. I'll go with "You don't seem to get it".

Tsu, murder is just the unlawful killing of another human with intent. Legally shooting Bundy in the face is the same as shooting a kid in the face. Now, emotionally there quite different. One might call the former "poetic justice".