The Iraq War

[Lt. Staplic]

The problem is how do we finish the war?

There's no easy answer that will work, and if we try to go with one of them and pull out before stability is reached, the entire infastructure will crumble and we'll have helped the terrorists we're waring against.

[Teaos]

The irony is that the Iraq war ha made the global terrorisum situation worse not better...

[Reliant121]

Now, my opinion is probably quite ignorant of the facts, and I will accept that entirely, I mean i'm not exactly knowledgable. But Kuvahmagh i think said that "if america isnt the worlds police man, who is". Simple, there shouldnt be one. By your measure of "criminal" and "dictator" you have to remove Saudi Arabia's government, among others, because they are not parallel with our own ideals. The power base is centered around religion there, and Opposing his position will be taken as an attack on Islam.

I think...
I may be spouting rubbish though.

[Mikey]

There SHOULD be one - the UN. I hate the fact that my country often takes matters into its own hands that should rightfully be UN matters; however, it's inevitable, given that the UN has called on the US to provide the bulk of personnel, materiel, etc., in joint ventures in the past. Given that understandable (if still wrong) extrapolation, then it becomes inevitable that any country follows its own agends while so doing, whether or not it were the US, the UK, or East Bumblenuts.

As far as my vote, I have always been against the war - I even protested out the onset - not from purely philosophical grounds, but because the best expected exit strategy is the one they have right now: "ummm, well..."

[KuvahMagh]

I agree the UN should do the job but like I said before we know where that gets us, locals slaughtered, people traumatized and we get to go back in 10 years to do it all over again... The UN is broken and until it is fixed (which I doubt very highly that it ever will be) it can't do the job. I'm not a huge fan of the US and its actions but at the same time I realise that they are the only one that can do the stuff that needs to be done. If the rest of the World has a problem with that, put your money where your mouth is, fund a real military capable of doing what you think the US shouldn't be doing and go in their with the UN. Until then, sit down and shut up. This goes for my own Country as well. The rest of the world stopped funding its military properly then we complain when only America does these things. We say they screwed it up, well yeah they did but where was your Country, you say opposing the War, well thats nice anyone can say pull out, run away, hide in the caves maybe they won't find you. Its alot harder to stand up and try and do something about something than that. The real challenge now is avoiding that strategy and trying to make the best of the situation.

Sorry I rambled on for a bit and it probably doesn't make sense but yeah.

[Tsukiyumi]

...it probably doesn't make sense but yeah.

Makes sense to me; like I said, I don't care for the option of standing by while injustice and genocide run rampant.

[Lt. Staplic]

Made sence to me to.

Totally agree

[KuvahMagh]

I really wish my Country would do more. People sit around here, saying we are peacekeepers yet the reality is the UN doesn't want us involved because our equipment is so bad the only thing stopping the bullets is the rust. They try and pretend like we have never fought a War, that's what the evil Americans do but they forget that in WW1 & WW2 we were there before America, though they attribute that to misplaced loyalty to Britain. They say we need to stop genocide but refuse to supply the means to do it. Simply put, you can't stop genocide with diplomacy. Its a sad fact but in some cases the only thing people respect and listen to is force.

At work one day me and a friend were talking about where we would rather visit Africa or the Middle East, I told him without a doubt Africa. He questioned it and I told him flat out that at least they don't blow themselves up, they have some self respect. It got a laugh but I reminded him that with a loaded gun and $20 you can be a king there. The gun gives you the power and the $20 gives you ammo, the combination of which supplies the rest. It might seem cruel but its true. You need force to stop these types of people, if America doesn't do it then who will? Canada? Britain? France? Germany? Russia? China? Who can do it.

I would love nothing more for the World to come together as a whole, build up the required forces and take out all of the corrupt tin pot dictatorships in the world and stop all of the violence and genocide but it won't happen.

[Tsukiyumi]

I would love nothing more for the World to come together as a whole, build up the required forces and take out all of the corrupt tin pot dictatorships in the world and stop all of the violence and genocide but it won't happen.

It won't happen as long as the majority of people have the "it's not my problem" mindset.

[Deepcrush]

The problem is that US troops die by the hundreds or even thousands every year. Trillions of dollars go to our defense and foreign aid budgets. Our armed forces are spread across the world. South America, Europe, North & East Africa, the Middle East and East Asia. The UN should gather its nations like the allies did in WW2. Even though each nation supplies, trains, recruits its own troops. They still worked together under a single command.

It won't happen as long as the majority of people have the "it's not my problem" mindset.

Well, the truth is that it's not our problem. The trick is to convince people that they should send their people to die for countries unwilling to handle their own problems. While at the same time forgetting their own troubles at home.

I fully believe that their should be a world police force. The issue I have with it is that it always looked to me that anywhere I go, people seem to think it should be the US. They curse us for being there or if we don't come they curse us for not being there. I feel that if the US pulls back for a while we can let everyone see what its like to go through the world without the US feeding or paying or balancing things for them. I want 1 year of the USA doing nothing for anyone.

[Teaos]

Part of the problem is that people either go for force or peace keeping. We need both. Go in guns blazing and take down the badguys but you also have to be prepared to stay for the enxt ten years building schools and teaching people trades. All to often people do one or the other when what is needed is both.

[Deepcrush]

I'd much rather we deal with those problems here at home before helping out others.

[Lt. Staplic]

Sometimes, the problems of one can only be solved in the aid of another.

[Teaos]

Again you need both, you need to take care of your own first but helping your neighbour will also help you.

[Tsukiyumi]

A friend of mine said to me, late last year, " You can't help anyone else until you help yourself." I guess a good analogy would be: find stable footing for yourself before you try to pull someone out of the quicksand. Otherwise, you both die.