We Need 50 Billion ASAP!

[Deepcrush]

I give, I give, show mercy, your lives will indeed suck once Ford is gone to hell.

[SteveK]

Allow me to go out on a limb here and give a double fisted bird to the domestic automakers, you guys have had 30 years to develop a more efficient automobile and couldn't be bothered. Rather you fed the gas guzzling craze with your ridiculous SUV's. Don't come asking for money because you were to stupid to learn the lesson the "Japanese invasion" should have taught you. I hope you enjoy going out of business and I propose the US government take that 50 billion and use it to train the plant staff in new trades, bet it'll cost a fraction of that.

If the American car companies didn't make the gas-guzzling huge cars the consumers wanted--somebody else would have. I remember reading somewhere that the average cost per manhour at one of the big three automakers is 4x what it is at one of the foreign automakers in the U.S.

If the government really wanted to help the automakers they'd give them a free-hand with the unions.

[Teaos]

If the American car companies didn't make the gas-guzzling huge cars the consumers wanted--somebody else would have. I remember reading somewhere that the average cost per manhour at one of the big three automakers is 4x what it is at one of the foreign automakers in the U.S.

BS.

They made them then marketed them, sure there would be a huge but not nearly as many as there are now.

[Aaron]

If the American car companies didn't make the gas-guzzling huge cars the consumers wanted--somebody else would have. I remember reading somewhere that the average cost per manhour at one of the big three automakers is 4x what it is at one of the foreign automakers in the U.S.

If the government really wanted to help the automakers they'd give them a free-hand with the unions.

I dunno if you were around in the 80's and early to mid nineties, when the standard car was a compact or mid-size sedan. The Big Three pushed things like the Suburban, Excursion and of course the Hummer. They also pushed the expansion of trucks like the F-150 and Tundra giving trucks more and more powerful engines, with sport packages.

[SteveK]

So everyone who bought an SUV is a victim eh? I don't buy it. Gas got really cheap for a while and people responded by buying cars that were big and powerful and used a lot of it. It just so happened that GM and Ford were the best at making cars that were big and powerful and used a lot of gas.

[Aaron]

So everyone who bought an SUV is a victim eh? I don't buy it. Gas got really cheap for a while and people responded by buying cars that were big and powerful and used a lot of it. It just so happened that GM and Ford were the best at making cars that were big and powerful and used a lot of gas.

Who said anything about being a victim? Automakers own some of the blame for pushing it and customers own some for buying into it. Frankly, people are bloody stupid if they thought gas was going to stay cheap. I've been driving for 13 years and it's only gone up and when there was a drop of a few cents it always went back.

The world is not as black and white as you choose to beleive.

[Mikey]

Deep - GM, including Chevy, is in trouble; they just haven't posted nearly as much of a loss for 2007 as Ford has. There is a reason that GM has completely ended the retail Hummer line.

Kendall - the advent of pickups as family vehicles does fall squarely on both American consumers and manufacturers, although if you're not sure, recall that the Japanese cos. were quick to jump on that bandwagon when it proved profitable. In fact, Nissan makes one of the only full-size light-duty trucks to only offer a up-size V-8, with no smaller 8 or V-6 option. As far as SUV's, that's bunk. Look to Mercedes, VW, and Toyota for that innovation.

[Aaron]

Kendall - the advent of pickups as family vehicles does fall squarely on both American consumers and manufacturers, although if you're not sure, recall that the Japanese cos. were quick to jump on that bandwagon when it proved profitable.

Wouldn't you? Companies of all shapes and sizes have been quick to pursue profit regardless of the long term effects.

In fact, Nissan makes one of the only full-size light-duty trucks to only offer a up-size V-8, with no smaller 8 or V-6 option. As far as SUV's, that's bunk. Look to Mercedes, VW, and Toyota for that innovation.

Did I say that NA automakers invented the SUV? No, I said they pushed them. Euro car makers and Honda (at least) appear intelligent enough that they spread out their approach to car design and marketing. And of course they have the benefit of being marketable elsewhere than North America.

[Mikey]

The Big Three's policies toward overseas sales have definitely been bound to an American lack-of-foresight way of thought. Having completely separate divisions - Opel and Vauxhall for GM, for example - for foreign sales is just asking for bureaucratic and accounting trouble.

[Aaron]

The Big Three's policies toward overseas sales have definitely been bound to an American lack-of-foresight way of thought. Having completely separate divisions - Opel and Vauxhall for GM, for example - for foreign sales is just asking for bureaucratic and accounting trouble.

So I take if GM goes boobies up than Opel and Vauxhall will as well?

[Mikey]

Unless GM sells them off for capital first. But I imagine you're right - what would happen to Lexus, for example, if Toyota crapped the bed?

[Aaron]

Unless GM sells them off for capital first. But I imagine you're right - what would happen to Lexus, for example, if Toyota crapped the bed?

I honestly couldn't say, I thought Lexus and Toyota parted a while back.

[stitch626]

Nope, still the same. Basically, Lexus = overpriced Toyota.