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When it comes to people who want my family and myself dead because we don't believe in their religion, I believe the use of force is a very acceptable option - especially since diplomacy is pretty much off the table.

Tsukiyumi wrote:When it comes to people who want my family and myself dead because we don't believe in their religion, I believe the use of force is a very acceptable option - especially since diplomacy is pretty much off the table.

Oh wow... the talking point worked...

In seriousness, there are a LOT of people who we "aren't talking to" in Paris Hilton fashion who have nothing to do with Al Qaida. You're aware for instance that Iran was trying to help us catch Osama and we basically rebuffed it with a "no, you're not on our birthday party list"? But then a country we DO talk to, Pakistan, is full of "people who would love to kill your family." It's a little naive to pretend the Bush Admin's foreign policy corresponds to the direct safety interests of you and your family, Tsuki. In fact in many easily noticeable cases it's quite the opposite.

Tsukiyumi wrote:
I was going to say something along the lines of, " Our friends have nothing to be afraid of." Our enemies should sure as hell re-evaluate their positions.

Yeah and GW basically stood up and said if you don't follow the US that you're not their friend with his "your either with us or with the terrorists". He even managed to piss off his closest allies (like Canada and Germany).

One of the worst parts IMHO is that it was all done under the guise of "protecting American families from evil." To that, I say: Who was protecting us from Bush?

Duskofdead wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:When it comes to people who want my family and myself dead because we don't believe in their religion, I believe the use of force is a very acceptable option - especially since diplomacy is pretty much off the table.

Oh wow... the talking point worked...

In seriousness, there are a LOT of people who we "aren't talking to" in Paris Hilton fashion who have nothing to do with Al Qaida. You're aware for instance that Iran was trying to help us catch Osama and we basically rebuffed it with a "no, you're not on our birthday party list"? But then a country we DO talk to, Pakistan, is full of "people who would love to kill your family." It's a little naive to pretend the Bush Admin's foreign policy corresponds to the direct safety interests of you and your family, Tsuki. In fact in many easily noticeable cases it's quite the opposite.

I certainly don't think this administration has made many good decisions, but the use of force was really the only option against extremist terrorist groups. The situation with Iran is one that can be solved with diplomacy, for sure, and cutting them off completely is idiotic.

BTW, f*ck Pakistan. They're just as oppressive and backward as the previous regimes in Iraq and Afghanistan that we 'nobly' decided to remove from power.

EDIT:

Cpl Kendall wrote: Yeah and GW basically stood up and said if you don't follow the US that you're not their friend with his "your either with us or with the terrorists". He even managed to **** off his closest allies (like Canada and Germany).

That was absurd. This fight is ours, and I don't see why we felt it even necessary to bring our (militarily) less-capable allies into the fight in the first place. I think the UK and Canada and everyone else should go home; there's really no good reason for them to be there.

Mikey wrote:One of the worst parts IMHO is that it was all done under the guise of "protecting American families from evil." To that, I say: Who was protecting us from Bush?

We can't even protect ourselves from Bush. Our idiot population voted him for a 2nd term. Or at the very least enough people voted for him to make it close enough that funny business was easy to carry out.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Duskofdead wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:When it comes to people who want my family and myself dead because we don't believe in their religion, I believe the use of force is a very acceptable option - especially since diplomacy is pretty much off the table.

Oh wow... the talking point worked...

In seriousness, there are a LOT of people who we "aren't talking to" in Paris Hilton fashion who have nothing to do with Al Qaida. You're aware for instance that Iran was trying to help us catch Osama and we basically rebuffed it with a "no, you're not on our birthday party list"? But then a country we DO talk to, Pakistan, is full of "people who would love to kill your family." It's a little naive to pretend the Bush Admin's foreign policy corresponds to the direct safety interests of you and your family, Tsuki. In fact in many easily noticeable cases it's quite the opposite.

I certainly don't think this administration has made many good decisions, but the use of force was really the only option against extremist terrorist groups. The situation with Iran is one that can be solved with diplomacy, for sure, and cutting them off completely is idiotic.

BTW, f*ck Pakistan. They're just as oppressive and backward as the previous regimes in Iraq and Afghanistan that we 'nobly' decided to remove from power.

Putting Iraq in a category with Afghanistan is the type of lazy American "war teaches us geography" thinking that has enabled ALL of Bush's bad decisions. Iraq: dictatorship, yes, but zero tolerance on religious extremism, relatively progressive rights for women and other minorities, etc. Hardly a utopia by any stretch of the imagination but hey, if you wanna condemn the whole thing on the basis of secret police or state terror tactics against its own people, I could name the U.S. doing similar things. Al Qaida and other groups didn't bother operating in Iraq because Saddam couldn't stand religious extremists and would have offed them for us.

Afghanistan, ruled by crazed super zealot hardcore religious faction whose primary export is opiates, where women got burned/stoned/whatever for trying to be teachers or go to school, etc. Known terrorist training camps.

The two weren't comparable at all, and to people in the Middle East, attacking two vastly different countries on the excuse of "oh well, they were both inexcusably primitive and they're better off now" is incredibly stupid given that, in relative terms within the Middle East, the two countries were not even comparable on the social progress scale. To Arab Muslims it would look like all the two had in common was a) having Arab Muslims b) ticking us off.

The fact that you'd even try to justify it based on how "backwards" they were is an example of the sort of American ignorance and arrogance which makes us so hated in the world right now.

Yes, we should have struck Afghanistan's Taliban and terrorist training camps. We should have surgically fought terrorism outside of Afghanistan by using an international intelligence network in a collaborative effort. Attacking Iraq and now saber rattling about attacking Iran completely took the "justifiable self defense" excuse out of the equation.

Note where I said "oppressive". I didn't say they were similar. Any oppressive government should be eliminated. The sole purpose of any goverment is supposed to be to ensure the protection and welfare of it's citizens. Notice that I said "Any" oppressive government.

Tsukiyumi wrote:Note where I said "oppressive". I didn't say they were similar. Any oppressive government should be eliminated. The sole purpose of any goverment is supposed to be to ensure the protection and welfare of it's citizens. Notice that I said "Any" oppressive government.

If the only qualification is oppressive then we should stop being hypocrites and begin by eliminating our own government.

Duskofdead wrote: If the only qualification is oppressive then we should stop being hypocrites and begin by eliminating our own government.

*ahem*

Huh? No, no. Our government is perfect. All hail the mighty and brilliant Dubya.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Duskofdead wrote: If the only qualification is oppressive then we should stop being hypocrites and begin by eliminating our own government.

*ahem*

Huh? No, no. Our government is perfect. All hail the mighty Dubya.

*whispers in Tsuki's ear while making a "knife slicing" gesture with his hand*

Duskofdead wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Duskofdead wrote: If the only qualification is oppressive then we should stop being hypocrites and begin by eliminating our own government.

*ahem*

Huh? No, no. Our government is perfect. All hail the mighty Dubya.

*whispers in Tsuki's ear while making a "knife slicing" gesture with his hand*

*zips mouth shut*

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Duskofdead wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote: *ahem*

Huh? No, no. Our government is perfect. All hail the mighty Dubya.

*whispers in Tsuki's ear while making a "knife slicing" gesture with his hand*

*zips mouth shut*

Until the 5th, then...

Duskofdead wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Duskofdead wrote: *whispers in Tsuki's ear while making a "knife slicing" gesture with his hand*

*zips mouth shut*

Until the 5th, then...

*whistling*

Mwahahahaha you fools.

I'm from the CIA and have infiltrated this site, everyone speaking out against President Bush is now under arrest!