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Not being able to use the predominant form of interstellar transportation is a bit of an issue.

Reliant121 wrote:Not being able to use the predominant form of interstellar transportation is a bit of an issue.

Battlefleet Gothic fluff States that their drives can throw them almost into the warp, but then they pop out due to a lack of psychers.

Still, their faster ships can hop along at about a third the speed of other races.

Necrons don't have psychers to access the warp properly either, but they seem to have things sorted out well enough.

Well, I imagine that once you're a veteran of a war between gods, you have access to a certain amount of .

True on all counts Sunny. I suppose if the infrastructure of your empire is properly sorted out and organised properly, which the Tau seem to have a knack for, you would only expand once you had adequate tech in place to substitute the rapidity of the Warp.

TBF, there are species under the auspices of the Tau that have full-fledged warp travel. The problem with the Tau is that as a completely non-psychic race, they have no variation of navigators in any sense of the term.

sunnyside wrote: Necrons don't have psychers to access the warp properly either, but they seem to have things sorted out well enough.

From the first codex the Necrons had realspace drives that could cross the galaxy almost instantly. In their new codex they only have STL ships and use the Webway.

Reliant121 wrote:Whether he is resurrected or not, his 'soul' is constantly laid bare for the warp anyway.

Does this mean the warp beings can read his mind but he's just strong enough to hold them all back?

Reliant121 wrote:Whether he is resurrected or not, his 'soul' is constantly laid bare for the warp anyway. It's purely his immense mental fortitude, as well as the sacrifice of countless weaker psykers whose minds are not strong enough to undergo sanctioning (therefore being able to use their talent), that keeps him and by extension Imperium society in check. He alone has the strength to keep chaos incidents to a relative minimum as well as maintain astrotelepathic communications and the Astronomican functioning making space travel possible.

The Lexicanum isn't exactly clear on that; is the Emperor himself consuming the psykers or is the chair directly powered by them somehow?



So one thing thats been difficult to trace down is where exactly is the lore currently? I mean its past the Horus Heresy but there seems to be new material coming out for that tho.

However the Lexicanum's timeline has WH40K in M42, "The Time of Ending," so what is the latest material?


So, where would one start with the tabletop? It's exceedingly confusing. There appear to be at least 7 versions of the codex; there just doesn't seem to be a decent entry point, nothing quite points the way to new players. Can't say I have any near term plans, it's an expensive hobby, but I like the idea of these games.

I guess Games Workshop is the main retailer of the miniatures (and lore of course).

Also, I presume Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is the fantasy/LoTR version of WH40K?



Thanks

LC

As you say, the Lore in general is incredibly diverse and equally hazy. I believe the Emperor has the strength to hold back the creatures of the warp due to his immense psychic fortitude; he really is a one in a trillion kind of Psyker. As for the "fueling", I believe it is stated in this article on the Lexicanum (cited via the Rogue Trader rules book) that the psykers power the Astronomican and provide it with it's psychic strength; the Emperor has the willpower to harness that energy and use it for good.

As for the rest, I've never been a tabletop player. Far too expensive in the UK. Games Workshop is indeed the retailer of it all (not sure whether they created it or bought licencing and ran with it).

Reliant121 wrote:As you say, the Lore in general is incredibly diverse and equally hazy. I believe the Emperor has the strength to hold back the creatures of the warp due to his immense psychic fortitude; he really is a one in a trillion kind of Psyker. As for the "fueling", I believe it is stated in this article on the Lexicanum (cited via the Rogue Trader rules book) that the psykers power the Astronomican and provide it with it's psychic strength; the Emperor has the willpower to harness that energy and use it for good.

I see, thanks.

As for the rest, I've never been a tabletop player. Far too expensive in the UK. Games Workshop is indeed the retailer of it all (not sure whether they created it or bought licencing and ran with it).

They're pretty expensive in the states too. =\

LaughingCheese wrote: The Lexicanum isn't exactly clear on that; is the Emperor himself consuming the psykers or is the chair directly powered by them somehow?

The best impression I got is that their souls/psychic power were metaphysically consumed in a way of transferring their power into him.

LaughingCheese wrote:So, where would one start with the tabletop? It's exceedingly confusing. There appear to be at least 7 versions of the codex; there just doesn't seem to be a decent entry point, nothing quite points the way to new players. Can't say I have any near term plans, it's an expensive hobby, but I like the idea of these games.

There's no continuity in the codices; each new one replaces - rather than continues - the previous one. Start (and end) with the most recent codex for the army you choose.

LaughingCheese wrote:I guess Games Workshop is the main retailer of the miniatures (and lore of course).

Main and only (if you count Forge World as an arm of GW.) There are a few outfits out there which make minis "similar" to GW ideas, which may be used as WH40k minis, but are not technically official WH40k minis. Games Workshop is more jealous of its intellectual property than a starving wolf is of an elk leg, and anyone who isn't GW caught marketing WH40k minis would promptly be sued into the Stone Age.

LaughingCheese wrote:Also, I presume Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is the fantasy/LoTR version of WH40K?

WH: Age of Sigmar - formerly known as WHFB (Warhammer Fantasy Battle) is the Warhammer tabletop battle game similar in scope to 40k, but set in a fantasy milieu replete with dwarves, elves, etc., and in a technological timeframe roughly equivalent to 14th-15th c. Europe. The prevailing theme of sentient races v. Chaos is similarly omnipresent.

Mikey wrote:

LaughingCheese wrote: The Lexicanum isn't exactly clear on that; is the Emperor himself consuming the psykers or is the chair directly powered by them somehow?

The best impression I got is that their souls/psychic power were metaphysically consumed in a way of transferring their power into him.

But it also kills the psyker yes? Sucks to have that "gift." =\

There's no continuity in the codices; each new one replaces - rather than continues - the previous one. Start (and end) with the most recent codex for the army you choose.

That certainly makes it easier!

I guess what I was trying to ask is where is the main body of the lore? Is it in the codices? Novels? Are the novels derived from the codices? I assume the codices came first?

And does each new codex tell the lore a little differently?

LaughingCheese wrote:I guess Games Workshop is the main retailer of the miniatures (and lore of course).

Main and only (if you count Forge World as an arm of GW.) There are a few outfits out there which make minis "similar" to GW ideas, which may be used as WH40k minis, but are not technically official WH40k minis. Games Workshop is more jealous of its intellectual property than a starving wolf is of an elk leg, and anyone who isn't GW caught marketing WH40k minis would promptly be sued into the Stone Age.

I see. It's amazing they're popular enough to have so many stores!

LaughingCheese wrote:Also, I presume Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is the fantasy/LoTR version of WH40K?

WH: Age of Sigmar - formerly known as WHFB (Warhammer Fantasy Battle) is the Warhammer tabletop battle game similar in scope to 40k, but set in a fantasy milieu replete with dwarves, elves, etc., and in a technological timeframe roughly equivalent to 14th-15th c. Europe. The prevailing theme of sentient races v. Chaos is similarly omnipresent.

I see, I'd looked into it a little bit. The Total War: Warhammer game looks pretty cool.


Speaking of games, what do you all think of the upcoming Battlefleet Gothic Armada? Looks awesome from what I can tell.

Apparently there was a board game by the same name from 2005.

LaughingCheese wrote:But it also kills the psyker yes? Sucks to have that "gift." =\

Yes. Millions of psykers are constantly rounded up, herded onto the Black Ships of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and brought to Terra continually. The strongest are either made into astropaths or battle psykers of the Astra Militarum; a very select few become members of the Inquisition, mostly the Ordo Malleus; most of those collected are sacrificed to sustain the Emperor.

LaughingCheese wrote:I guess what I was trying to ask is where is the main body of the lore? Is it in the codices? Novels? Are the novels derived from the codices? I assume the codices came first?

The codices usually have some anecdotal fluff, as do the Imperial Armor rulebooks, but most of it comes from the novels.

LaughingCheese wrote:And does each new codex tell the lore a little differently?

Usually. For example, one Imperial Guard codex might have a bit of fluff regarding, say, the Catchan Jungle Fighters (an IG regiment,) while the next would have a bit about a completely different regiment. Except in rare instances, like the eradication of the Squats, one won't contravene the last.

LaughingCheese wrote: So, where would one start with the tabletop? It's exceedingly confusing. There appear to be at least 7 versions of the codex; there just doesn't seem to be a decent entry point, nothing quite points the way to new players. Can't say I have any near term plans, it's an expensive hobby, but I like the idea of these games.
LC

An expensive hobby it is, and that's why I think the "fluff" is important. You have to get into your particular force if you're going to go through all the effort of paying for, assembling, and painting your models.

They have some "getting started" stuff on the website. To simply model of course you just pick a box of whatever looks cool and some art supplies, there are people that do that.

For the gaming you need the main rulebook for this edition. They'll want to sell you three books though, one on modeling/painting and another on fluff to go with the rules. There are quicker play starting kits where you get an abbreviated version of those books, plus some minis, plus some art supplies. I suppose you also need to get some dice and templates, presumably they come bundled with other stuff.

To play a "proper" army you need the most recent codex for that particular force. It will have all the special rules and fluff for that particular force. And then of course you need the models to assemble. There are various starter bundles and such that can provide a somewhat cheaper entry.

There are also special books with variant rules, you'd have to see if local players use any of those. Sometimes they do to keep gameplay fresh.

GWs business model features continually changing rules. Maybe every five years or so they update the main rules and new codexes for existing or new forces come out after that. At first I found that annoying and to an extent still do, but again it does keep things fresh. It also makes it easier on new players because even experienced players will be dealing with somewhat new and unfamiliar rules.

One odd thing that occurs to me. Since GW is trying to sell models and presumably trying to appeal to as broad a group of people as they can, you'd think that they'd have some "good guys" for people who rather want that.

Maybe they figure that would annoy everybody else too much to come out as a net gain?

I suppose people get to make their own fluff for their particular chapter/craftworld/etc and for at least a few you could easily paint oneself as a "good" group by modern standards.

There are a number of different armies that can be construed as the "good guys," and a few others that could be construed situationally as "good guys." Imperium forces, naturally, can be envisioned as such, insofar as they are the forces of humanity - which includes any players of the game. Eldar sometimes fight against Chaos, Chaos sometimes fights against the Necrons, Orks sometimes fight against Dark Eldar; the Tau fight for the greater good of their protectorate species.