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Deepcrush wrote:Nope, I'd rather they just drag him out of his hole, confirm who he is, shoot him, and then just dump the body and leave it to the desert.To he'll with the UN, their courts or their burial concerns.

I'm not talking about the UN, I'm talking about justice for his victims and getting as much information as possible about past incidents. Trying and either imprisoning or executing him as Saddam was would have sent a clear message that he was a criminal, not the martyr some are now likely to portray him as. This is the method the NTC themselves would have preferred.

As for dumping him in the desert, that method risks his body being found and becoming the centrepiece of a shine for the few who continue to view him as a martyr. The Mediterranean Sea, on the other hand, poses very little such risk.

Captain Seafort wrote:I'm not talking about the UN, I'm talking about justice for his victims and getting as much information as possible about past incidents. Trying and either imprisoning or executing him as Saddam was would have sent a clear message that he was a criminal, not the martyr some are now likely to portray him as. This is the method the NTC themselves would have preferred.

Justice, as we're seeing in the other thread, tends to be meaningless with the civilian population. Better off just getting rid of the problem people and then just move on.

Deepcrush wrote:Justice, as we're seeing in the other thread, tends to be meaningless with the civilian population. Better off just getting rid of the problem people and then just move on.

Perhaps. Nonetheless, I would much prefer process be followed, so that evidence of said problems can be clearly laid out, and only the most obtuse idiots can consider him undeserving of whatever punishment he received. You're a lot less bureaucratic.

Captain Seafort wrote:Perhaps. Nonetheless, I would much prefer process be followed, so that evidence of said problems can be clearly laid out, and only the most obtuse idiots can consider him undeserving of whatever punishment he received. You're a lot less bureaucratic.

The bureaucratic process is for politicians or wannabe politicians and normally just delays the ability of enforcement to protect the populace, even from itself.

Deepcrush wrote:The bureaucratic process is for politicians or wannabe politicians and normally just delays the ability of enforcement to protect the populace, even from itself.

No, the bureaucratic process is for all state agencies. It's important not only for justice to be done, but for it to be seen to be done, if only to reduce the amount of whinging from those with nothing better to do than whinge.

Captain Seafort wrote:And? The Libyans would have possession of him and the strongest case in terms of jurisdiction on grounds of nationality and location of most of the crimes he'd be charged with.

You're far more idealistic than I thought if you think the rest of the wold would've said, "OK, the Libyans have him... let's just drop it."

Captain Seafort wrote:Guess there's no point in the plod questioning any criminal suspects then, since the guilty obviously aren't going to give any straight answers.

No there isn't, if the subject of questioning is standing on the gallows with a hemp scarf on and one foot on a trap door.

I agree with Mikey, there's no reason to expect Ghaddaffi to come clean about anything. The guy knows what's going to happen to him, a short drop and a sudden stop, so what's his motivation to do anything but flip you the bird? Personally I'd have liked to see him tried a criminal and hung but shot like a rabid dog in a drainage ditch works almost as well.

Mikey wrote:You're far more idealistic than I thought if you think the rest of the wold would've said, "OK, the Libyans have him... let's just drop it."

I wouldn't expect them to. I also wouldn't expect the Libyans to give a shit, and since possession is nine tenths of the law, there's fuck all they can do about it unless they want to invade a country they'd just been trumpeting as a model for the rest of the Arab world to emulate.

No there isn't, if the subject of questioning is standing on the gallows with a hemp scarf on and one foot on a trap door.

You obviously have a far lower opinion than me of the ability of a skilled interrogator to get answers out of an uncooperative subject.

Captain Seafort wrote:You obviously have a far lower opinion than me of the ability of a skilled interrogator to get answers out of an uncooperative subject.

Not at all. What I do (and will continueto) have is a far lower opinion of a skilled interrogator to get answers out of an uncooperative subject which are truthful, relevant, and accurate.

Captain Seafort wrote:there's fuck all they can do about it unless they want to invade a country they'd just been trumpeting as a model for the rest of the Arab world to emulate.

That's exactly what I would expect NATO to do if someone decided that Ghaddafi should have stood trial in the Hague or wherever.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:The bureaucratic process is for politicians or wannabe politicians and normally just delays the ability of enforcement to protect the populace, even from itself.

No, the bureaucratic process is for all state agencies. It's important not only for justice to be done, but for it to be seen to be done, if only to reduce the amount of whinging from those with nothing better to do than whinge.

I disagree with this simply on the fact that 99% of what goes on will never be known by the world at large. When it comes to fixing problems, civilian input on the matter is generally as useless as the civilians themselves. Its still just best to terminate the problem and move on.

Caught a few of 'em. And, as I predicted, the Libyans have demanded and received first crack at trying them.

Interesting how the ICC complains about the Lybians not being able to handle justice on their own. What is it we are supposed to pretend the ICC is useful for again?

On the other hand, good day for Lybia, another body for the meat pile and one less trouble maker for the future.

It is disappointing that the opponents of imperialism have lost another campaign against the United States government and other agents of imperialism. It is unfortunate that the hegemonic discourse has succeeded so thoroughly in painting Gaddafi as some kind of demented tyrant who cared not for his people, but then it is hardly surprising.

Also, I laugh at the sheer naivete of anyone who believes that the United States and other governments intervened to protect human rights and democracy or other such nonsense.

If you want to troll the thread, is it too much to ask that you at least make some attempt to try and disguise the fact?

Or at the very least try to sound like you're saying something meaningful.