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Mikey, welcome to the 'we love the excelsior' club!

I agree with you in all ways. She was form and function in harmony!

Captain Seafort wrote:Which I'm sure was why the E-nil was unable to escape from the Excelsior in ST3, and Excelsior didn't come to a grinding halt because half a dozen tiny chips got nicked. Oh. Wait

Now, now, no need for facetiousness. As far as I could guess, ANY type of ship could be effectively sabotaged by an top-level engineer in its own organization, who had unrestricted access to go where and do what he pleased at all times.

Wait - by "nicked" you mean stolen, not "having received some nicks," right? My facility with UK slang isn't 100%.

Correct - nicked = stolen.

While my phrasing was a tad facetious, the point stands. As Scotty said about the ship "the more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain".

He also said that he was useless to help Geordi aboard the Jenolen and the E-D. And advancement in starship design seems to inevitably lead to more fragile designs up to TNG - hence, the warp core with the stability of toilet tissue (See EVERY OTHER THREAD HERE.)

However, I still don't take the ability of an experienced, very capable Starfleet chief of engineering to sabotage a Starfleet ship as evidence of a design flaw. If they were that fragile, why would they still be serving in such numbers in the Dominion War?

I don't think the ship was stopped for more then a moment as that was all the Ent needed to get away. With a new design of engine crashing you wouldn't just jump start it again. The Ex had a problem and the ship stopped to check it out! Its called common sense, but the reason it looks weird is because we are so used to not seeing common sense in ST.

How could you say something as wrong as 'form over function'!
I thought you better then this! Were you baiting me?

Nope, its the truth.

The ship was the end of the 'function over form' era. Just because she good looking doesn't mean she can't wipe the floor with you!

Just because you can build a good looking ship doesn't mean its a good idea. 'Function over form' is how it should be, and how it is now.

Please old boy, you well know the power of that class! Like mikey said, she was form and function combined for the first time and not match until the sov.

Rochey wrote:Just because you can build a good looking ship doesn't mean its a good idea. 'Function over form' is how it should be, and how it is now.

I'm a captain now, so I can argue with you.

You're right, but as I said I believe that much of what made the Excelsior good-looking was incidental to the practicality of design; at the very least, any allowances made to form were not seemingly done at the cost of function.

I don't care about rank!
You messed with my ship so now its on!

Please old boy, you well know the power of that class! Like mikey said, she was form and function combined for the first time and not match until the sov.

Power =/= intelegent design.

I'm a captain now, so I can argue with you.

True, but I was promoted ahead of you.

You're right, but as I said I believe that much of what made the Excelsior good-looking was incidental to the practicality of design; at the very least, any allowances made to form were not seemingly done at the cost of function.

You're right there that the Excelsior isn't the worst example of 'form over function', but it did seem to be the start of that whole trend.

No that GCS of yours started that problem!

The GCS was merely a product of such thinking. The Excelsior was the first ship to feature such a design, though it was far more competantly built than the E-D.

Thats right, the outer design came from it. But the ships internal systems came from a jon where as the EX's system came from MIT! Never forget that a properly upgraded EX can slap stick a galaxy with little trouble! Flag ship my ass!

At least the Excelsior was, as far as we know, better constructed than th E-B. Or we saw her on Wednesday.

What's a "nubian"?