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Captain Seafort wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:Well, when things get crazy then its time for a crazy response. Have a few destroyers skirt the coast and level every boat/boat house or warehouse within shore view.

You mean the ones where they're holding their hostages? Very clever Deep.

Don't you understand Deep's rationale by now? If everyone is a target, then there are zero collateral casualties.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:Well, when things get crazy then its time for a crazy response. Have a few destroyers skirt the coast and level every boat/boat house or warehouse within shore view.

You mean the ones where they're holding their hostages? Very clever Deep.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... TheHostage

Well if everyone in the area is dead and all the buildings burnt to the ground, it would take care of the pirate problem.

And just in case, yes that was sarcasm.

Mikey wrote:Don't you understand Deep's rationale by now? If everyone is a target, then there are zero collateral casualties.

It may sound funny but I was being serious. The problem is that the pirates feel they are generally safe in their practices since we don't go after them in any sense of prevention. Once you remove that sense of security then you can cut back on the numbers of people willing to take up the task

As for the collateral casualties, shit happens. If you're going to fight a problem then do so with the intent to win or don't bother with it at all.

I made a joking response, but I do understand your point. Unfortunately, things like "acceptable" risk may be necessary to actually get things done but are frowned upon by the international community. In any event, We can't just "go in" and shell all suspected Somali pirate locations; this is the U.S. - we need intel to be gathered, re-gathered, discussed in committee, passed on to the Joint Chiefs, discussed again, have acceptable risk models run, discussed, re-run, dissected, argued over, etc., etc.

Said it before... to these people, what they are doing is simply a business. As far as they're concerned, they get hostages, somebody pays, they release hostages. That's the way it's meant to go, and navy forces who get in the way are essentially cheating them. You have to realise, where they come from there isn't any government or law besides whatever your local gang lord enforces and whatever loyalties he owes. They just don't get that there are rules about how you treat people, and police and military to enforce those rules. From the pirate's point of view the Navy is essentially just another big gang that's trying to muscle in on their business.

I'm not suggesting that any of that is morally right or justifies what they're doing, but if you want to know why they behave in such a "strange" way, that's why.

@ Mikey
That there is the problem... constant inaction.

@ GK
If they're dead, then I don't have to care how they think about anything.

Well put it in terms you might like : Know your enemy and his motivations, it makes it easier to kill him in large numbers!

GrahamKennedy wrote:Well put it in terms you might like : Know your enemy and his motivations, it makes it easier to kill him in large numbers!

I know my enemies and their motivations. I also know their names and locations, which by the chance also makes it easier to kill them in large numbers.

GrahamKennedy wrote:Said it before... to these people, what they are doing is simply a business. As far as they're concerned, they get hostages, somebody pays, they release hostages. That's the way it's meant to go, and navy forces who get in the way are essentially cheating them. You have to realise, where they come from there isn't any government or law besides whatever your local gang lord enforces and whatever loyalties he owes. They just don't get that there are rules about how you treat people, and police and military to enforce those rules. From the pirate's point of view the Navy is essentially just another big gang that's trying to muscle in on their business.

I'm not suggesting that any of that is morally right or justifies what they're doing, but if you want to know why they behave in such a "strange" way, that's why.

That's what we've been discussing. This very description is why this situation is so odd; even forgetting about our morality, executing the hostages as they did was simply bad pirating. A dead hostage can earn you nothing, and certainly can't gain you any leverage with the oncoming U.S. soldiers. From a strictly business/pragmatic point of view, murdering the hostages was the wrong thing to do.

Mikey wrote:Make a break for it? They were on a friggin' boat. Even the Somali equivalent of Homer and Jethro would have had the jolly boats and lifeboats covered.

As in try to take a gun away from a pirate or just jump overboard. US forces were close enough to fire an RPG at they were close enough to swim to.

Tyyr wrote:

Mikey wrote:Make a break for it? They were on a friggin' boat. Even the Somali equivalent of Homer and Jethro would have had the jolly boats and lifeboats covered.

As in try to take a gun away from a pirate or just jump overboard. US forces were close enough to fire an RPG at they were close enough to swim to.

I think you overestimate the average middle-aged American's ability to swim strongly in open seas while in the middle of a firefight, not to mention his ability to think coherently and calmly in that situation. It's all well and good to say, "They should have..." or "I would have..." but you and I and these four people aren't seasoned soldiers, cops, or anything else trained to think in that situation. I've been attacked before in which situation my life definitely could have been at risk - I'm happy to say that I didn't wilt like a dry flower; I'm sorry to say that common sense didn't even come close to overriding my instinctual red rage, and I reacted instead in a way that would have likely gotten me killed if a) the people in the other party had firearms and b) my peeps didn't show up at the right time.

I'm not saying it can easily be done, that it was a good idea, or even possible. I'm saying that when surrounded by 19 AK wielding pirates taking a swim in the open ocean for a nearby navy ship might seem like a better alternative than sticking around and hoping for the best. I'm also not suggesting that this is what they should have done. It's merely suggested as a possible reason for why the pirates shot the hostages dead.