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Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:56 am
by Monroe
sunnyside wrote:
He goes throuh the whole thing talking about how the public option will "compete" with the private ones. Now seperate from whether you think it's the right thing to do. Even in the plan the democrats admit their plan is going to cost money that 1.5 trillion dollars and it's supposed to absorb parts of various existing expensive government health assistance programs for the poor etc. That's what private industry likely won't be able to compete with, because they can't run at a perpetual massive financial loss.
The worry being companies and indaviduals will switch to the public option, meaning costs beyond what the government is budgeting for (because the government is losing money on the policies), and the whole issue where then people get forced out of their existing healthcare options.
Again, you can say that's all great, but the point is that isn't what he's going to talk about.
I have a friend from Germany who I talked to at a wedding I was in recently and she said that they have private insurance companies and public options and they can compete simply because the private ones offer better care, better options, more treatments, more options (Like weight loss, breast augmentation) and the like. Also she says that the public option has long waits for elective procedures.
So there you go, there is room for insurance companies to compete in this new world but they will take a huge financial hit at the beginning and probably many will go under.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:23 am
by Tsukiyumi
Monroe wrote:Also she says that the public option has long waits for elective procedures.
Bolded the important bit.
Monroe wrote:So there you go, there is room for insurance companies to compete in this new world but they will take a huge financial hit at the beginning and probably many will go under.
A shame. Perhaps they should have leveraged their enormous profits into stability for their industry, rather than into executives' pockets.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:04 am
by Reliant121
It's kinda how our dental care works. You can sign up for one of two options, theres a third but I don't really get the point of that one. Theres your NHS care: Fairly good, cheap and does the job. I'm on this one. The big disadvantage is some areas simply dont have NHS dentists cause it's the dentist's choice to go NHS, Independent or Private. Then we have private care. Theoretically better care, better service, less waiting times however it does cost more.
The not having NHS Dentists is where our system fails down a bit. We have a tendency to have a postcode lottery on what you can and can't get. I'm lucky, the Brune Medical Centre that I go to is both an NHS doctor surgery and an NHS dentist surgery, and we signed on immediately with Dr. Aurora for dentistry. before that I was private.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:10 am
by Tsukiyumi
Personally, I'd rather have the possibility of some care than the certainty of no care at all.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:01 am
by Monroe
Tsukiyumi wrote:Personally, I'd rather have the possibility of some care than the certainty of no care at all.
Agreed.
This is suppose to be a safety net. The real thing is suppose to be better.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:15 am
by Tsukiyumi
Monroe wrote:This is suppose to be a safety net. The real thing is suppose to be better.
Exactly.
If you're well-off (by my standards, $80k a year is well enough off), you can still get "superior" care if you want to pay more. The public option would be for low income people who can't afford a private plan.
I can't afford a $200 a month private plan, and I certainly won't be getting any company plan in the next decade. Which leaves me pretty much screwed under the current system.
I don't qualify for Medicaid or SSDI (somehow
), so I guess I should hurry up and die before I cost the taxpayers money for my unpaid bills.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:35 am
by Sionnach Glic
Monroe wrote: Also she says that the public option has long waits for elective procedures.
The public system works on the basis of priorities. If someone wants, say, a vasectomy then he's naturaly going to be
way down in the line behind people who actualy
need help immediately.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:55 am
by Tsukiyumi
Rochey wrote:Monroe wrote: Also she says that the public option has long waits for elective procedures.
The public system works on the basis of priorities. If someone wants, say, a vasectomy then he's naturaly going to be
way down in the line behind people who actualy
need help immediately.
Actually, they'd
naturally be behind whoever has more money. Over here, at least.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:48 pm
by sunnyside
Tsukiyumi wrote:
I can't afford a $200 a month private plan, and I certainly won't be getting any company plan in the next decade. Which leaves me pretty much screwed under the current system.
I don't qualify for Medicaid or SSDI (somehow
), so I guess I should hurry up and die before I cost the taxpayers money for my unpaid bills.
Actually, and this comment is shifting from debate to trying to help, but why are you and Monroe so sure you won't be able to get any benfits. I mean you could work for the post office and get a very nice package.
Also if Monroe is young and graduating there are (well, at least there were when I graduated) some very cheap options out there, and you do have a college degree.
Is it just that you guys are getting beat up by the economic downturn?
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:55 pm
by Tsukiyumi
sunnyside wrote:Actually, and this comment is shifting from debate to trying to help, but why are you and Monroe so sure you won't be able to get any benfits.
Because I've checked. The criteria are very specific, apparently.
sunnyside wrote: I mean you could work for the post office and get a very nice package.
I'll look into it; they're cutting back on post office expenditures, unfortunately.
sunnyside wrote:Also if Monroe is young and graduating there are (well, at least there were when I graduated) some very cheap options out there, and you do have a college degree.
I don't have one, and odds are: wont be able to get one any time soon.
sunnyside wrote:Is it just that you guys are getting beat up by the economic downturn?
No, I've been beaten down by the economy for quite a while.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:24 pm
by Mikey
Tsukiyumi wrote:Actually, they'd naturally be behind whoever has more money. Over here, at least.
I understand your sitch, Tsu, but hopefully that winky is there to denote the fact that this is hyperbole? The way it really works here is that you have to have the money or the right job as the price of admission;
then they prioritize based on triage protocols.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:35 pm
by Monroe
sunnyside wrote:
Actually, and this comment is shifting from debate to trying to help, but why are you and Monroe so sure you won't be able to get any benfits.
Cause I work for 7.25 an hour 12 hours a week and I can't find a new job. Though that should improve when I graduate. I've already earned a degree just haven't graduated with the degree. That comes in december. Taking one more class so I can have two degrees.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:54 am
by sunnyside
So what are your resumes like and what part of the country are you in?
Also if you have insurance now Monroe you might want to look into getting it continued, many schools have programs for that, same for staying on your parents plan if that's how you're doing it. There were some laws passed a while back requiring companies to offer extensions for a few years.
Additionally short term health insurance can be cheap. Under $100 a month if you're young.
Having a lapse in health insurance can be bad news if something goes wrong. Where sometimes even minimal coverage will get conditions covered even when you switch plans.
The laws and options are a little convoluted, and I'm no expert. But it's worth looking into.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:19 am
by Tsukiyumi
sunnyside wrote:So what are your resumes like and what part of the country are you in?
I'm in Houston, Texas: one of the only places that hasn't been stomped on by the recession, and we've lost 60,000 jobs in the last year.
My resume is quite short; I do odd jobs, and get paid in cash, so the only "official" job I have on record is a year at Domino's Pizza about eight years ago.
sunnyside wrote:Additionally short term health insurance can be cheap. Under $100 a month if you're young.
I'm not young, and
$100 a month is nowhere near cheap. Take a zero off there, and I could afford it.
sunnyside wrote:Having a lapse in health insurance can be bad news if something goes wrong.
It'll be especially bad news for the taxpayers that will have to eat the cost if I need medical treatment. A shame there isn't some sort of public insurance that I could actually afford.
Re: Public Option Defeated?
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:06 am
by sunnyside
Tsukiyumi wrote:
My resume is quite short; I do odd jobs, and get paid in cash, so the only "official" job I have on record is a year at Domino's Pizza about eight years ago.
Well, how are you physically? Also is your criminal record clean?
sunnyside wrote:
I'm not young, and $100 a month is nowhere near cheap. Take a zero off there, and I could afford it.
A shame there isn't some sort of public insurance that I could actually afford.
Um. You actually might be in a bad spot. Obama admits that his plan won't cover everyone, and that people still have to pay premiums. In your current situation, without an employer who would be obligated to cover you and if $100 is too much, it's possible you fall into the "not covered" catagory for the different plans. Although if you could put up $100 or so a month if it covered your pre-existing conditions than maybe you'd be OK.
If not than you may want to aggressively look for steady employment, as there may not be any help for you coming down the pipe regardless of what gets passed.