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Still, it seems the Connies were able to withstand a lot more relative damage and still function. I mean, the E was able to fly with a torp hole right thru her saucer!

I gotta say, that is a grand old lady! I loved the design since I first saw it in 1986.

And IIRC, most of the 360 degrees around the ship are covered by the phaser ball turrets, at least the movie version.

Mikey wrote:Still, it seems the Connies were able to withstand a lot more relative damage and still function. I mean, the E was able to fly with a torp hole right thru her saucer!

Didn't the Borg do that to the E-D at J-25? The one with Q, they just cut a big cylinder out of the saucer section...

Didn't the Borg do that to the E-D at J-25?

Yes, you're correct. Although one was an explosive munition and the other was a more surgical cut, I have to accede to that argument.

I gotta say Thorin I really like you. Your usually on my side of the debate and you remember all the little things I forget

Thorin wrote:

Mikey wrote:Still, it seems the Connies were able to withstand a lot more relative damage and still function. I mean, the E was able to fly with a torp hole right thru her saucer!

Didn't the Borg do that to the E-D at J-25? The one with Q, they just cut a big cylinder out of the saucer section...

The Borg attack at J-25 was much smaller in diameter than the ST:VI torpedo hit, and also didn't go all the way through the saucer. As Mikey said, the impact was also a lot less severe - a bit like comparing a hole cut in a sheet of paper with a knife, and one punched through with a fist.

We can safely assume that the Galaxy's hull is far stronger than the Constitutions.

Just because a torpedo in TNG doesn't have the ability to rip all the way through the saucer section of a ship doesn't mean that it couldn't handle it if one did.
Either way, they both had a hole through them. It doesn't matter if it was explosive or not - the E-D has withstood plenty of explosive hits from torpedos, that if the hull were weak enough and the torpedo punched right through, would still have carried on.

The E-D can withstand a torpedo; like in ST:VI, and it can withstand a big hole in its saucer section, like in ST:VI. Just because they don't happen at the same time is hardly relevant.

Thorin wrote:Just because a torpedo in TNG doesn't have the ability to rip all the way through the saucer section of a ship doesn't mean that it couldn't handle it if one did.

We have no evidence of a Galaxy surviving that sort of impact.

Either way, they both had a hole through them. It doesn't matter if it was explosive or not - the E-D has withstood plenty of explosive hits from torpedos, that if the hull were weak enough and the torpedo punched right through, would still have carried on.

The Q Who incident was far less energetic than the STVI incident. The former simply removed a core from the saucer by cutting it away, the latter blasted its way through, doing severe damge to the interior of the ship. The area around the hole in the E-D's hull exhibited no damage, while the area around the hole in the E-A's hull exhibited multiple shock fractures and deformation of the hull.

But first you said a galaxy class ship could not withstand a hole in it's saucer, but now it's the blast it couldn't withstand... But it can. In Generations it had plenty of direct hull impacts and survived (on the Saucer section, at least )

Thorin wrote:But first you said a galaxy class ship could not withstand a hole in it's saucer, but now it's the blast it couldn't withstand... But it can. In Generations it had plenty of direct hull impacts and survived (on the Saucer section, at least )

It's the size of the hole and the nature of the impact that I have doubts that it could withstand. Yes it took plenty of impacts in Generations (all in the engineering hull) and look what happened - it blew up, despite suffering much less extensive damage than the E-nil in Wrath of Khan.

Maybe having a stronger warp core makes it more vunerable to blowing us. You either build small ships with more stable warp cores or big ships and risk it.

Captain Seafort wrote:
It's the size of the hole and the nature of the impact that I have doubts that it could withstand. Yes it took plenty of impacts in Generations (all in the engineering hull) and look what happened - it blew up, despite suffering much less extensive damage than the E-nil in Wrath of Khan.

It blew up thanks to a warp core breach. I didn't see any of Khan's torpedos go near the warp core, did you? Only one torpedo caused the breach, too (according to Laforge). So it managed to withstand quite a few before then and was still able to function normally.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the Achilles' heel of "modern" (TNG-era +) ships - attacks on one part of a vessel doing severe damage to seemingly removed interior locations. It maybe due to the ability to show it thanks to SFX advances, but it seems like a moderate hit to a ship's aft shields (for example) causes a helm console to explode in a fireball - or forward hits damaging the seemingly well-protected warp core.

As I said, it may be because the SFX weren't up to it, but we didn't see that kind of dislocated damage as frequently in TOS/TMP-era.

I think they intend that to be power surges. Which makes no sense since they can be easily stopped.

Not only can they be stopped, but 'Trek has categorically described damage to shields as LOSSES in power...