Down With Organized Religion!

[Mark]

What kills me is how ridiculous some of the churches explinations are trying to pass off.

Example

After the age of the Earth was proven, I certain minister I know began to teach that God's days are different than man's days, which is how the world still managed to be created in six days. Of course, personally I don't feel the allmighty keeps track of days like us mere mortals (after all, if He doesn't need a starship, he certainly doesn't need a watch), but what an insane things to say, IMO

[Lt. Staplic]

i don't think it's insane at all, I've often used a similar explination when justifying by belief in evolution to some one religious.

[Sionnach Glic]

Thing is, even if we assume God's days are longer than our days (which makes quantifying it a pretty fucking pointless exercise, which you'd think an all-knowing being would realise), we can quantify to some extent how long one of God's days is.

In the Bible, God warns Adam that if he eats the fruit from the forbidden tree of knowledge, he will die within a day.
But, later on in Genesis we get this passage:
"5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

So even if we are extremely generous, and assume that Adam ate the apple within the same year he was born, one of God's days is 930 years long.

So, Earth created in 6 days means:
930 X 6 = 5,580

So the six days in Genesis tally at around five and a half millenia: nowhere near the real figure.

Case = rested.

[stitch626]

Or you could realise that day simply means an unspecified period of time. Not a day, just a period of time. Each "day" may not even be the same.

[Sionnach Glic]

Then why specify six days? They're obviously using it as some form of measurement that are more or less identical in span.

You know, this could all be avoided if the all knowing creator realised that he wasn't being all too clear.

[Tsukiyumi]

...You know, this could all be avoided if the all knowing creator realised that he wasn't being all too clear.

You know, I don't recall God ever claiming itself to be omnipotent...

Of course, none of the Bible was written by God, so it's not like any of it is valid first-hand information.

[Mikey]

Then why specify six days? They're obviously using it as some form of measurement that are more or less identical in span.

You know, this could all be avoided if the all knowing creator realised that he wasn't being all too clear.

Why does He have to be clear? He doesn't owe us anything. I mean, reading Genesis and trying to equate the time frame to what we think of as days is both completely missing the point of reading Scripture, and stupid to even attempt - our days are measured by either the rising and setting of the sun or moon, neither of which was present thorughout the creation story.

If a person's concern with reading the Bible is determine a specific time period referred to by the "six days" mentioned in Genesis, then either: a) they should really rethink what they're trying to get out of the Bible, or b) they are intentionally looking for trivia to criticize, in which case they will find it if it's there or not. I have heard a lot of arguments against dogma, orthodoxy, Scripture, and organized religion in general on the forum - some good, some not so good. I hate to break it to you, but the "six days = how much real time" argument is patently not one of the good ones.

And, to the right wing fundie nuts who decry evolution based on the six-thousand-year history of Earth, I make the exact same case. If your faith is based on literally interpreting the meaningless trivia of the Bible, rather than the real message, you've missed the boat.

[Lt. Staplic]

Then why specify six days?

because when the bible was written, they wanted to give a finite measurement rather than an abstract form which could hinder the recruitment to the religion.

[Sionnach Glic]

Why does He have to be clear? He doesn't owe us anything.

Considering he's condemned everyone who doesn't believe in him to burn in hell for all eternity, I'd say the least he could do is make his words a bit more coherent.

I mean, reading Genesis and trying to equate the time frame to what we think of as days is both completely missing the point of reading Scripture, and stupid to even attempt - our days are measured by either the rising and setting of the sun or moon, neither of which was present thorughout the creation story.

Then why specify six days? Why not "six years", or "a very long time"?

If a person's concern with reading the Bible is determine a specific time period referred to by the "six days" mentioned in Genesis, then either: a) they should really rethink what they're trying to get out of the Bible, or b) they are intentionally looking for trivia to criticize, in which case they will find it if it's there or not. I have heard a lot of arguments against dogma, orthodoxy, Scripture, and organized religion in general on the forum - some good, some not so good. I hate to break it to you, but the "six days = how much real time" argument is patently not one of the good ones.

I'm pointing out that for a book supposedly written by an all-knowing being, the very first paragraph makes no sense regardless of which way you look at it.

You know, I don't recall God ever claiming itself to be omnipotent...

True, that's more an invention by the religious organisations that came later.

Of course, none of the Bible was written by God, so it's not like any of it is valid first-hand information

The problem is that quite a lot of people do consider the Bible to have been written by God. Hence my comments.
If we take the realistic view that it was written by a bunch of guys without a clue as to the nature of the universe, it's not a problem.

[Tsukiyumi]

Of course, none of the Bible was written by God, so it's not like any of it is valid first-hand information

The problem is that quite a lot of people do consider the Bible to have been written by God. Hence my comments.
If we take the realistic view that it was written by a bunch of guys without a clue as to the nature of the universe, it's not a problem.

Honestly, my Catholic CCE class mentioned that, along with the fact that it was originally passed down verbally for thousands of years before finally being written down, and was therefore changed from the original message. What I was taught is that the only thing ever written by God personally were the Ten Commandments, and Moses smashed those in anger before returning to Mount Sinai to make replacement tablets himself...

[stitch626]

Considering he's condemned everyone who doesn't believe in him to burn in hell for all eternity, I'd say the least he could do is make his words a bit more coherent.

God has never actually done this. The original cancept came from the 2nd-6th century (not 100% sure on the time period, a lot of mutilation of the scriptures occured over that time) church, when they wanted a way to force people to join.
In fact, nowhere in the Bible does it mention hell fire the way the Catholic church describes.


As for writen by God...
The scriptures were God inspired, kind of like a memo typed by a secritary but spoken by the boss.
And they were not passed down by word of mouth, they were written on a multitude of scrolls (and tablates earlier on).

[Sionnach Glic]

Debate conceded.

[Monroe]

Then why specify six days? They're obviously using it as some form of measurement that are more or less identical in span.

You know, this could all be avoided if the all knowing creator realised that he wasn't being all too clear.

Actually if I remember right from my looking into the alternate theory behind human development in ancient summerian the word for days is the same word for thousands of years.

[Tsukiyumi]

...And they were not passed down by word of mouth, they were written on a multitude of scrolls (and tablates earlier on).

So, what did they do before writing was invented? It's not like people just popped into existence and started writing and building pyramids, you know.

[stitch626]

You do realize that the first parts of the Bible were written by Moses, by which time they had writing.