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Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:47 am
by Teaos
They know what it is, they just ignore it.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:38 am
by katefan
Having Coto as a producer on the show may have gone a long way towards helping the series, but there are so many things wrong with the series:

Berman and Braga wrote a lot of episodes in the first two seasons.

The Akiraprise.

Phase pistols.

Transporters.

T'Pol.

Bland characters like Reed and Mayweather.

Bakula miscast.

I really think the series is a failure from top to bottom. Perhaps Coto's involvement would have made it better, but if the Killer Bs were in any way, shape or form involved I could not see it as working. Those two burned up all their creative energies long ago.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:54 am
by Teaos
The Akiraprise.

Phase pistols.

Transporters.
Those are the biggest three problems. They show such a total lack of respect for trek and the whole point of doing a prequil.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:11 pm
by Mark
That's what you get when you find yourself in charge of somthing as magical as Star Trek as have the "it's just a TV show" mentality. You KNOW your screwing up when even your loyal Trekkies bail on you.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:27 pm
by Monroe
Teaos wrote:
Transporters.
Those are the biggest three problems. They show such a total lack of respect for trek and the whole point of doing a prequil.
I've said in other threads but the pilot episode the producers give the commentary and they complain that they didn't want to put transporters in but the studio made them.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:28 am
by Teaos
I know. I never said it was someones fault (although just because they are there doesnt mean they had to use them so mcuh) just the fact that by being there they cheapen the series.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:05 am
by katefan
Monroe wrote:
Teaos wrote:
Transporters.
Those are the biggest three problems. They show such a total lack of respect for trek and the whole point of doing a prequil.
I've said in other threads but the pilot episode the producers give the commentary and they complain that they didn't want to put transporters in but the studio made them.
Did the studio make them put T'Pol in f**k me pumps and a cat suit? Did the studio make B&B write episodes write A Night In Sickbay, Vanishing Point, Acquisition, Regeneration, Terra Nova, Unexpected and Two Days and Two Nights? Did the studio make B&B give us Romulans with cloaking devices and aliens employing "stealth technology"? Or maybe B&B could not write original, good stories any more and did not have the balls to admit it to themselves, or get the concept of a sequel. Sure, the transporters would have been annoying, but added to everything else, including the piss poor planning of the use of the D-7 model in Unexpected just tells me they just could not give enough of a damn.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:37 am
by Teaos
I do find it funny that people claim to like ENT but not TNG, when ENT is just TNG recycled.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:56 am
by Nickswitz
I would have taken them up to a high roof top and just pushed
problem solved :D

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:17 pm
by Sionnach Glic
I do find it funny that people claim to like ENT but not TNG, when ENT is just TNG recycled.
Well, ENT has better effects, so it appeals more to the demographic that just cares about seeing things get blown up, rather than having a plot that makes you stop and think.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:33 pm
by stitch626
What bothers me is that most of ENT's problems could be fixed in a few seconds.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:45 pm
by Nickswitz
Yes all it would take is a slight shift in wind at the right time :D

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:04 pm
by katefan
Teaos wrote:I do find it funny that people claim to like ENT but not TNG, when ENT is just TNG recycled.
The biggest difference being more likeable characters on TNG:

Data is far more interesting than T'Pol, who pretty much stands around and looks either like a manniquen or insufferably arrogant. She is also incredibly skinny and unattractive, especially in the Moe Howard wig they made her wear. We saw in TOS that not all Vulcans have that hair style so why make her wear it in a prequel?

Data, on the other hand, was masterfully played by Brent Spiner and was able to fill the Spock position without being a Spock clone.

Picard and Riker over Archer. Picard was a true diplomat and Stewart was great in his role (especially in episodes like Darmok and Starship Mine), and Frakes was also a lot of fun. Episodes like Frame of Mind showed how good an actor he could be. Bakula might be a good actor, but the writers certainly did not give him much to work with.

Worf over Reed. Badass over candyass any day.

Geordi over Trip. I just found the former to be more likeable than the latter, and the latter was usually Enterprise's butt monkey for most of the show. If anything bad was going to happen to someone, it was Trip.

Tough call between Deanna and Hoshi. Hoshi is prettier, but Deanna actually got to do more, which amazes me. Troi got more lines, Troi got to go on more away missions. There were also nice Troi/Riker dynamics:

Riker (to Picard): Did I ever mention how creative the Risian women are?

Troi: Repeatedly.

Sirtis had comedic timing.

Crusher over Phlox. Why introduce an alien race we had never seen before? Why not make Phlox Andorian or some other familiar species? And why have an alien doctor on a ship comprised of 99% humans?

I liked Crusher, partly because she was a working mom and it was an interesting dynamic on the show. Wesley got the shaft, big time, and in retrospect when I watch TNG if Wheaton is given decent material he delivers.

And that brings me to the other thing TNG had; writers. This was not the same Brannon Braga, this was him at the top of his game. By Enterprise the man was just tired and rehashing his material. You had Michael Piller, Ronald D. Moore, Jeri Taylor and a literal host of others, just look at Graham's TNG reviews to see just how many writers TNG had at their disposal. What was important was the amount of talent with editorial oversight, so you had lots of great ideas from a variety of sources. Berman was doing his job at this point, administrating and making sure things stayed consistent.

By Enterprise's time you had primarily Berman and Braga writing the show, and it shows that the two are just bankrupt for ideas.

Then you had the fact that Enterprise was a prequel that did not feel like a prequel. Humans were just going where the Vulcans had already been, you already had Klingons, the technology did not seem all that different (i.e. "stealth technology"), etc. TNG really felt like a leap forward from TOS with more effective replicators, Klingons were allies, the Enterprise was immense and incredibly comfortable, holodecks, etc. TNG captured what it set out to do, while Enterprise was an epic failure.

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:36 pm
by Graham Kennedy
Gah, don't get me started on Reed. I just cannot understand what the writers could possibly be thinking with his character.

This is the guy who is meant to be the military expert on the ship, or as close as they have to one. And yet... he's scared of water. He's allergic to bromelain. He's allergic to dust mites. He's allergic to oak. He's allergic to pollen. He's allergic to tropical grasses. Basically, he's a grade A weakling!

Re: If you could change one thing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:44 pm
by Aaron
GrahamKennedy wrote:Gah, don't get me started on Reed. I just cannot understand what the writers could possibly be thinking with his character.

This is the guy who is meant to be the military expert on the ship, or as close as they have to one. And yet... he's scared of water. He's allergic to bromelain. He's allergic to dust mites. He's allergic to oak. He's allergic to pollen. He's allergic to tropical grasses. Basically, he's a grade A weakling!
Sounds like he got into Starfleet becuase the RN rejected him.