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Neat idea, though splitting the crew over the two ships would have changed the dynamic of the film. It could have been good though.

Best to leave Uhura on the Enterprise, stick her on the Excelsior and she'd probably kick Rand out of her seat and have her bringing Sulu's tea.

Mikey wrote:Can't be. In all of 'Trek, I think I saw one current enlisted man and one retired.

You mean discounting TOS? There seemed to be a lot of enlisted personnel in it.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:You mean discounting TOS? There seemed to be a lot of enlisted personnel in it.

There was Yeoman Rand, and Chief Kyle, but other than that it can't think of any - all the nameless redshirts seemed to be ensigns.

Captain Seafort wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:You mean discounting TOS? There seemed to be a lot of enlisted personnel in it.

There was Yeoman Rand, and Chief Kyle, but other than that it can't think of any - all the nameless redshirts seemed to be ensigns.

I always assumed the nameless ones in the background wearing those wraparound tunics were enlisted personnel...

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:I always assumed the nameless ones in the background wearing those wraparound tunics were enlisted personnel...

Wraparound tunics? The only wraparound I remember was Kirk's green one - everyone else either wore standard uniform or the coveralls. In any event, all the ensigns specifically identified as such wore the standard uniform, with no rank insignia, as did the various background extras.

As an aside, the TOS TM, though non-canon, splits all starship crew into "Officers (command)" and "Crew (Ensign grade)". That's probably a good indication of Roddenberry's intentions in the mid-70s, although whether it had been his intention at the time, or remained such by the time of the movies or TNG, is anyones guess.

Captain Seafort wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:I always assumed the nameless ones in the background wearing those wraparound tunics were enlisted personnel...

Wraparound tunics? The only wraparound I remember was Kirk's green one - everyone else either wore standard uniform or the coveralls. In any event, all the ensigns specifically identified as such wore the standard uniform, with no rank insignia, as did the various background extras.

*Snaps fingers* That's it. I always assumed they were enlisted personnel.

I had always assumed the coveralls indicated duty of a sort that was likely to get messy, rather than indicate rank or grade.

There's also the "Yoeman of the week" in TOS. There were several crewmen (generic rank for enlisted maybe) on Voyager, though most of them were Maquis (provisional rank then...). There was Chief Petty Officer O'Brian. Maybe others, tis all I can think of right now.

I always thought "yeoman" was sort of an auxiliary position, lik eWWII "waves" or "WAC's."

The only ones I clearly recall were O'Brien and Worf's adoptive father.

Considering all the shows are based around the senior staff it is hardly suprising that we see mostly officers. If someone who knew nothing about the Navy only watched JAG they would presume the Navy was mostly Lawyers and criminals.

Hey, I just has a thought courtousy of Teaos. Wouldn't a ship the size of a GCS with that many officers, crew, and civillians warrant it's own JAG officer? Yet obviously there wasn't one, as we saw in "The Measure of a Man", for if there was, there would have been no need to rope both Picard and Riker into roles as lawyers.

As for the discussion of the rank breakdown, the Trek universe is pretty inconsistant when it comes to being top heavy. After all, in TNG you have the ships 2nd officer, Lt Cmdr Data as the Operations Manager as it is a very important shipboard position, essentially the ships manager. Yet in Voyager, they have the same position held by a raw ensign, and they have an experienced veteran in charge of security? How many people could have been in Tuvok's dept, considering the size of the ship? Any more than 20 would have been ridicioulous.

Now the scientists could very easily get a Lt Cmdr rating. You have then Lt Cmdr Troi, who doesn't even HAVE a department staff that we've ever seen, and Lt Cmdrs Crusher and Pulaski, who we have no real idea the size of the medical staff.

In TNG we don't hardly ever get to see the science departments in action, so we don't know what kind of a staff each departments would have. I figure (and it's just my guess) you'd have the Dept head (a Lt Cmdr), an assistant dept head, maybe a half dozen junior science officers assigned to various projects, with each junior officer having their own enlisted research and assistant team of maybe four people, all utilizing state of the art computers and science equitment. A department of this size with this kind of specialized equipment would easily warrent a Lt Cmdr, especially if you stop and figure they will assign a full 4 pip Captain to a ship with a crew of 40 or so, like a Defiant or a Sabre.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear what anybody else thinks of the crew department breakdown. How many security officers would Enterprise D have carried?

Mark wrote: How many security officers would Enterprise D have carried?

Well if Lt. Worf was head (Seems silly for a ship that size), probably not a ton. I'm a little curious of this, because this would have included tactical personel as well. It would not be unreasonable to assume that you'd want individual crew members assigned to the proper maintenance of each of the 12 phaser arrays and the 2 torpedo launchers. If nothing else, 1 Lt. for every 2 arrays/launchers, so there's at least 7+ Lieutenants alone just for this. Worf probably had a couple Lieutenants as deputies, if you will, not to mention those to cover bridge/battle bridge tactical duties. I'd think you'd want at least 12 Lt. grade for security and tactical.

Security could be huge. There is no need for them to be officers so there could be hundreds of crewmen security members.

I always saw security at a ratio of 1 security officer for every 20 crewman for some reason. With seven hundred crew (not counting civilians) that would be 35 active security officers (not counting tactical personel). That didn't seem reasonable to me at the time, until I realized that woud only be for nominal ship and planetside duties. Everybody in starfleet is given at least SOME training in combat, so I suppose other personel could be "deputised" as needed. I mean, after all, what does a regular security officer DO during a regular duty shift? Guard an empty brig? Patrol the corridors? Play cards in the armory? Watch internal camera feeds?

Mark wrote:I always saw security at a ratio of 1 security officer for every 20 crewman for some reason. With seven hundred crew (not counting civilians) that would be 35 active security officers (not counting tactical personel). That didn't seem reasonable to me at the time, until I realized that woud only be for nominal ship and planetside duties. Everybody in starfleet is given at least SOME training in combat, so I suppose other personel could be "deputised" as needed. I mean, after all, what does a regular security officer DO during a regular duty shift? Guard an empty brig? Patrol the corridors? Play cards in the armory? Watch internal camera feeds?

Good call. I'd imagine you'd want to naturally have security posted in at least some key points. Truthfully, I'd want one man guarding the bridge, engine room, and perhaps other spots at any given time. I mean even modern naval ships have MP on them.