Florida and Michigan

[Duskofdead]

Obama never voted for or against the war. Look in the McCain VP thread for more information.

His voting record has consistently been on the right side of just about everything. If you added up the things McCain and Hillary voted correctly on and multipled them by 5 you wouldn't have an Obama.

[Mikey]

To be clear: I am an Obama supporter. However, I think Stitch's point was that Obama hasn't really had a chance to be wrong on many issues.

[sunnyside]

This is a complete travesty. The DNC had an established and well-known rule, and Florida and Michigan knowingly and willfully broke it with full cognizance of the consequences. Now, they don't have to suffer those conseqences? Absolutely friggin' ridiculous. If Canada had more summer and nicer beaches, I'd move.

Oh calm down. The DNC isn't a general election. It's for a group of supposedly like minded Democrats trying to pick the best candidate while trying to get the most people behind them in order to produce the best result for the party. So this is less like some kind of corperate debauchery and more like you letting your wife off of putting $50 in the swear jar after you left the toilet seat up.

There was no good way out of this for them. This may be their best bet. Give Hillary something so she doesn't drop a drama bomb and shave her head or something at the convention, but they probably figure it won't actually prevent Obama from getting the nod.

[Aaron]

[

Oh calm down. The DNC isn't a general election. It's for a group of supposedly like minded Democrats trying to pick the best candidate while trying to get the most people behind them in order to produce the best result for the party. So this is less like some kind of corperate debauchery and more like you letting your wife off of putting $50 in the swear jar after you left the toilet seat up.

There was no good way out of this for them. This may be their best bet. Give Hillary something so she doesn't drop a drama bomb and shave her head or something at the convention, but they probably figure it won't actually prevent Obama from getting the nod.

What it does do is reinforce the impression (that the GOP are more than happy to point out) that the Dems are spineless. After all they can't police their own party and enforce their own rules.

[Teaos]

Well I have lost a lot of respect for the Dems due to this campaign. I cant put into words my utter hatred for Hillary as a politican.

[Mikey]

This is a complete travesty. The DNC had an established and well-known rule, and Florida and Michigan knowingly and willfully broke it with full cognizance of the consequences. Now, they don't have to suffer those conseqences? Absolutely friggin' ridiculous. If Canada had more summer and nicer beaches, I'd move.

Oh calm down. The DNC isn't a general election. It's for a group of supposedly like minded Democrats trying to pick the best candidate while trying to get the most people behind them in order to produce the best result for the party. So this is less like some kind of corperate debauchery and more like you letting your wife off of putting $50 in the swear jar after you left the toilet seat up.

There was no good way out of this for them. This may be their best bet. Give Hillary something so she doesn't drop a drama bomb and shave her head or something at the convention, but they probably figure it won't actually prevent Obama from getting the nod.

No, the DNC is a committe which helps decide the bylaws and dispense general election funding, advice, and assistance. DNC = "Democratic National Committee." And what this action has done is send the message that no matter what rules are in place, you can circumvent them if throw a big enough temper tantrum.

[Aaron]

I found an articl eposted on SDN that confirms this:

MSNBC

WASHINGTON - Democratic Party leaders agreed Saturday seat Michigan and Florida delegates with half votes into this summer's convention with a compromise that left Barack Obama on the verge of the nomination but riled Hillary Rodham Clinton backers who threatened to fight to the August convention.

"Hijacking four delegates is not a good way to start down the path of party unity," said adviser Harold Ickes.

Clinton's camp maintains she was entitled to four additional Michigan delegates.

The decision by the party's Rules Committee raised slightly the total delegates Obama needs to clinch the nomination. Clinton advisers conceded privately he will likely hit the magic number after the final primaries are held Tuesday night, but said the ruling threatened to dash any hopes of a unified party.

"Mrs. Clinton has told me to reserve her right to take this to the Credentials Committee" at the convention, said Ickes, who is a member of the Rules Committee that voted Saturday.

The resolution increased the number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination to 2,118, leaving Obama just 66 delegates away from the majority needed to secure the nomination.

"Our main goal is to get this resolved so we can focus on winning Michigan and Florida," Obama said while campaigning in South Dakota. "There were compromises. ... I'm glad the DNC worked it through and I hope we can start focusing on substance as opposed to process."

The deal was reached after committee members deliberated for nine hours, including three where they met privately and argued fiercely over their eventual deal, according to several people inside. They voted in front of a raucous hotel ballroom that frequently interrupted proceedings and reflected deep divisions within the party.

"How can you call yourselves Democrats if you don't count the vote?" one of the many hecklers in the audience yelled loudly and repeatedly before being escorted out by security. "This is not the Democratic Party!"

A senior Clinton adviser, speaking on a condition of anonymity about internal campaign decisions, said the decision could be used to help her raise campaign donations for a scaled-down campaign that might focus on a signature issue - such as health care reform - rather than a traditional fight for the nomination.

The advisers said no decisions had been made, and it was still possible that Clinton would bow out once Obama goes over the top.

Clinton and her supporters wanted the Michigan and Florida delegations fully restored, according to January primaries that she won. But those contests were not recognized by the party because they were held too early, and both candidates agreed at the time they would not count.

Sticking point
But as Clinton tried to catch up to Obama's delegate lead, she has argued that the votes of the 2.3 million people who participated in the elections must be recognized.

Obama supporters argued that they did compromise by allowing her to take the majority of delegates in two contests where he didn't campaign.

The sticking point was Michigan, where Obama's name was not on the ballot.

Clinton's camp insisted Obama shouldn't get any pledged delegates in Michigan since he chose not to put his name on the ballot, and she should get 73 pledged delegates with 55 uncommitted. Obama's team insisted the only fair solution was to split the pledged delegates in half between the two campaigns, with 64 each.

The committee agreed on a compromise offered by the Michigan Democratic Party that would split the difference, allowing Clinton to take 69 delegates and Obama 59. Each delegate would get half a vote at the convention, according to the deal.

The deal passed 19-8. Thirteen members of the committee had endorsed Clinton for president, so she wasn't even able to keep her supporters together.

Allan Katz, a Rules Committee member and Obama supporter, said the Obama campaign had enough votes on the committee to support the campaign's proposal to split the delegates 50-50 in Michigan. Ultimately, the campaign agreed instead to support the compromise negotiated by the Michigan Democratic Party as a way to resolve the matter.

"The ironic thing is Obama had the majority of that committee," Katz said. "The Obama campaign wants to move on and compromise. We did not muscle our way through it. It was a wise decision from a well run and wise campaign that will reverberate."

But the irate reaction from Clinton's campaign and her supporters in the sharply divided audience shows Obama will have a long way to go to bring the party together after a long and divisive primary.

'We just blew the election!'
"We just blew the election!" a woman in the audience shouted. The crowd was divided between cheering Obama supporters and booing Clinton supporters.

"This isn't unity! Count all the votes!" another audience member yelled.

Jim Roosevelt, co-chair of the committee, tried repeatedly to gavel it to order. "You are dishonoring your candidate when you disrupt the speakers," he chided.

There are three primaries left in the contest - Puerto Rico on Sunday and Montana and South Dakota on Tuesday. Obama should get at least 30 delegates in the remaining primaries, meaning he has to pick up no more than about 30 more superdelegates even if he loses Puerto Rico and South Dakota.

He will not clinch the nomination this weekend, barring a barrage of superdelegates Sunday.

The committee also unanimously agreed to seat the Florida delegation based on the outcome of the January primary, with 105 pledged delegates for Clinton and 67 for Obama, but with each delegate getting half a vote as a penalty.

We may now resume discussing the goatrope that is the American political system.

[Mikey]

First, she agrees that the votes won't count. Then, Obama agrees toa worse compromise (for him) than what he could have gotten. Now, she's still not happy and still intending to go back on her agreement. THAT'S the "unity and fairness" that the Democratic party wants? I think not.

Harold Ickes, BTW, was, is, and always will be a jackass who's only goal is to hear himself speak.

[Aaron]

At this point that seems to Hillary's goal as well. I fully expect if Hillary gets the nod or wins the Presidency that a decade after we'll find she bribed her way in. With sex I assume seeing as her campaign is reportly in the red.

[sunnyside]

With sex I assume seeing as her campaign is reportly in the red.

Um. I'm just not seeing that. I guess maybe she could pimp out Bill to Pelosi or something....

Anyway Democrats are already seen as spinelss. So they have less to lose giving that impression than one of disenfranchising people. Or the impression that they'll punish you if you break the rules. I mean the latter could cost them the Hispanic vote.

[Duskofdead]

Well I have lost a lot of respect for the Dems due to this campaign. I cant put into words my utter hatred for Hillary as a politican.

Seriously, I can't wrap my mind around how you can feel that way about Hillary and support McCain. McCain has done at least as much self-whoring and reversal of supposedly core principle issues in his crusade to be President before he enters the alzheimers clinic. In fact, (and I know you aren't American or an American Republican Teaos) it is amazing how much projection Republicans in the U.S. do. Whatever they DESPISE in a Democrat-- be it sexual scandals or arrogant ambition and a refusal to admit being wrong, are things they are just as guilty of, if not 10 times moreso, than your typical Democrat. That and, Hillary has run her campaign EXACTLY as a Republican would. I have always failed to see what Republicans hate about Hillary, she is so much like them it hurts.

[Aaron]

With sex I assume seeing as her campaign is reportly in the red.

Um. I'm just not seeing that. I guess maybe she could pimp out Bill to Pelosi or something....

Anyway Democrats are already seen as spinelss. So they have less to lose giving that impression than one of disenfranchising people. Or the impression that they'll punish you if you break the rules. I mean the latter could cost them the Hispanic vote.

If their already percieved as spineless, does it not follow that they can't afford to be seen as more spineless? Come on, their starting to become the new French.

That and, Hillary has run her campaign EXACTLY as a Republican would. I have always failed to see what Republicans hate about Hillary, she is so much like them it hurts.

Hubby got a blowjob in the Oval Office and it wasn't from a man.

[Teaos]

Ah handy having inside information. Half way around the world and I still find out before everyone else.

Clinton has a very fanatical support base but I dont think she realises that out side of that group she is pretty much hated.

[Aaron]

Ah handy having inside information. Half way around the world and I still find out before everyone else.

How long have you been sitting on this? The article I posted is from the same day you put up the thread.

Clinton has a very fanatical support base but I dont think she realises that out side of that group she is pretty much hated.

You know, I can't see why. Other than she's a woman what does she offer that others don't? I'd like a woman president too but not one that sucks soccer mom.....err, tit I guess.

[Teaos]

Not sure when it was announced publicly but my cousin sent be the email pretty much as soon as it happened. He was assigned to the case.

You know, I can't see why. Other than she's a woman what does she offer that others don't? I'd like a woman president too but not one that sucks soccer mom.....err, tit I guess.

The reason I hate her so much as it is shown that she will say and do anything to get into power. She would suck off every senator on the hill if it got her in.

You can never trust a politician but she is an especially bad example.