www.ditl.org

Actually with the continual march of progress the question isn't leave them be or don't leave them be. It's protect them or let them get wiped out.

sunnyside wrote:I didn't know about the making GIs gods thing.

Also what I didn't realize going into the above story was the number of uncontacted tribes still out there. I presume they aren't counting tribes that have had some contact, but simply choose to keep their lifestyle.

Well it actually makes sense in a way that out of the tribes that still remain independent of modern life, most of them would be uncontacted. Contacted tribes suffer something like a 50% mortality rate from the soup of diseases they are exposed to which cosmopolitan man carries around daily, which usually means the remainer is unable to defend for itself and winds up being janitors and low level menial workers to survive. Every once in awhile they do a special on Discovery or TLC about the Yanomamo and similar tribes who, through years of contact and study, have suffered huge losses to things like flu, colds, strep, etc.

Rochey wrote:Ditto. They're not doing anything of any importance. Leave them be.

Rochey, will you please not agree with me? It's throwing my whole role in the forums out of whack!

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:

Rochey wrote:Ditto. They're not doing anything of any importance. Leave them be.

Rochey, will you please not agree with me? It's throwing my whole role in the forums out of whack!

Yeah, what team are you on, again?

Wait, what team am I on? Dammit...

Imagine a science fiction version. Some huge spaceship blows through the solar system one day, flashing past Earth... we all make fuss and noise about it and the aliens watch and comment about how it's so amazing that there are still uncontacted planets left in the galaxy nowdays, and how it would be a good idea to leave us isolated to go our own way.

Hell, it's practically the exact plot of Rendezvous with Rama! Except in that a few natives got aboard the plane...

GrahamKennedy wrote:Imagine a science fiction version. Some huge spaceship blows through the solar system one day, flashing past Earth... we all make fuss and noise about it and the aliens watch and comment about how it's so amazing that there are still uncontacted planets left in the galaxy nowdays, and how it would be a good idea to leave us isolated to go our own way.

Hell, it's practically the exact plot of Rendezvous with Rama! Except in that a few natives got aboard the plane...

That's a great analogy, Graham.

I wonder what would happen if someone dropped a crate of travel magazines in their little camp?

Serious wake-up call, for sure.

Here's a thought. Isn't it rather arrogant of us to decide that these people should continue living their traditional lifestyle? Shouldn't we make contact with them and offer them the advantages of the modern world, then let them decide their own fate?

It's just like the Voyager episode "Natural Law", which if you read my review on DITL prompted a rather angry rant.

GrahamKennedy wrote:Here's a thought. Isn't it rather arrogant of us to decide that these people should continue living their traditional lifestyle? Shouldn't we make contact with them and offer them the advantages of the modern world, then let them decide their own fate?

It's just like the Voyager episode "Natural Law", which if you read my review on DITL prompted a rather angry rant.

We're totally on the same page on this one, Graham. They haven't the slightest idea what the rest of the world is doing, and they're in danger of extinction because of other cultures' decisions. They should be made aware of the global situation, so they can decide their own future.

It just so annoys me when we get these sad, sad reporters lamenting the death of some tribe or other because all the young people are buying mobile phones and wearing jeans and leaving to get jobs in some nearby town. It contains the assumption that their way of life is somehow better, more noble than ours - and therefore the way to preserve it is to deny the people there the choice of doing anything else.

All this, incidentally, from reporters who file their story and then go home to live the actual lifestyle they are denouncing and wanting to deny to others. Well if living in a mud hut is so much better why doesn't he go and do it himself?

It's so bloody stupid and hypocritical, it makes me mad.

I'm upset over the near extinction of my people, but I'd much rather have air-conditioning and cars and computers than return to living in a deer-skin teepee and walking five miles to find fresh water. There's no reason people can't preserve their culture while embracing change, and as you pointed out, choice.

GrahamKennedy wrote:Here's a thought. Isn't it rather arrogant of us to decide that these people should continue living their traditional lifestyle? Shouldn't we make contact with them and offer them the advantages of the modern world, then let them decide their own fate?

It's just like the Voyager episode "Natural Law", which if you read my review on DITL prompted a rather angry rant.

It can literally kill them to simply barge into their society and start talking to them. Literally.

GrahamKennedy wrote:It just so annoys me when we get these sad, sad reporters lamenting the death of some tribe or other because all the young people are buying mobile phones and wearing jeans and leaving to get jobs in some nearby town. It contains the assumption that their way of life is somehow better, more noble than ours - and therefore the way to preserve it is to deny the people there the choice of doing anything else.

It's so bloody stupid and hypocritical, it makes me mad.

It's not that it's more noble, the reason it's sad is because once that culture is gone, it's gone. One unique way of life wiped off the earth and replaced by more people holding cellphones and drinking lattes. I'm all for choice. But I don't really celebrate the idea of assimilating everyone into our culture or making doing so a prerequisite of survival in the modern world. If multiple cultures can be accomodated by the globe, they should be. Not artifically or by force, but by choice when appropriate. And it should be respected.

Again I don't know that there are currently legal restrictions on contacting them. If it's really your idea of a fun vacation to make first cotnact with a new culture go ahead and buy yourself some red body paint and some plane tickets.

It's just nobody bothers, and others think we shouldn't.

Duskofdead wrote:It's not that it's more noble, the reason it's sad is because once that culture is gone, it's gone. One unique way of life wiped off the earth and replaced by more people holding cellphones and drinking lattes. I'm all for choice. But I don't really celebrate the idea of assimilating everyone into our culture or making doing so a prerequisite of survival in the modern world. If multiple cultures can be accomodated by the globe, they should be. Not artifically or by force, but by choice when appropriate. And it should be respected.

It's not a matter of celebrating their assimilation. I'm all for people living the lifestyle they want to live, but that's just the point - it must be the lifestyle they WANT to live. Working to limit or deny their choices simply to keep them in a culture that you judge worth preserving when the people who are actually living it do not, is absurd.

That's what happened in Natural Law. Chakotay and Seven spent days with those people, learned to communicate with them... and at no point did either one of them think to even try and ask them what they wanted.

Likewise with these tribes. People are saying we should leave them isolated, uncontacted - and why? Precisely so they will have no other choice but to live as they always have.

I say give them the choice. And if they choose not to preserve their culture, then their culture is not worth preservation.

They are probably better off without us, it's true.