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All the lesser powers put together wouldn't be able to take down the UFP - that's pretty much the definition of a great power.

I know they where quickly demoted from TNG's main antagonist to comic relief, but what about the Ferengi? They have economic and some diplomatic clout, and their top line marauders appeared to have a fighting chance one on one with a Federation Galaxy Class.
They probably wouldn't last five minutes in an all out conflict with any of the big three, but might against the Cardassians or other second tier powers.

Enkidu wrote:I know they where quickly demoted from TNG's main antagonist to comic relief, but what about the Ferengi? They have economic and some diplomatic clout, and their top line marauders appeared to have a fighting chance one on one with a Federation Galaxy Class.
They probably wouldn't last five minutes in an all out conflict with any of the big three, but might against the Cardassians or other second tier powers.

The Ferengi would never really be a military power. They prefer to negotiate and seem to lack a formal military.

I thought we where talking about general political power, rather than just military. There is more to power politics than just military might.

I alwats got the impression the Ferengi werent very organised as a society. A lose coalition at most.

Enkidu wrote:I thought we where talking about general political power, rather than just military. There is more to power politics than just military might.

Tell that to the US

General influence and military might are irrevocably interrelated, to be sure, but are not always one and the same. I do agree with the impression that the Ferengi are not centralized enough to score, however.

Captain Seafort wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:I'm not sure any of them can really measure up to the Feds, Klingons or Romulans.

Good point. The "fourth power" isn't so much that as the best of the rest, probably capable of giving one of the Great Powers a fight, but incapable of putting up long-term resistance against a serious offensive. The way the Cardassians folded in WotW proves that.

Thanks. Yeah, I think there's a definite power gap between the Big Three and the others, far too large for any of them to overcome singly, or in pairs.

i reckon that with a more centralised society, economic sabotage, unified purpose rather than individuocentrism, bribes and more aggression-potentially the recruitment of mercenaries or purchase of enslaved races(with restraining collars etc) to man the marauders or train the crews, that the ferengi could be a significant force, if the klingons, romulans and cardassians have economies that are compatible with ferengi mercentilism, then the ferengi if fulfilling the above criteria might be able to do some serious harm.

One certainly can't underestimate the value of economic power; the Ferengi seem to have a nominal government at best, with an slightly anarchic system ruled merely by a cultural philosophy. The "out for myself" mentality would make it hard for the Ferengi to organize toward common goals.

ChakatBlackstar wrote:

Enkidu wrote:I thought we where talking about general political power, rather than just military. There is more to power politics than just military might.

Tell that to the US

Ah, yes, 'cause replacing diplomacy with bellicose posturing from swaggering bullies like John Bolton and Dick Cheney has really increased the US's position in the world, hasn't it? Do you think foreign countries are scared of you?

Enkidu wrote:

ChakatBlackstar wrote:

Enkidu wrote:I thought we where talking about general political power, rather than just military. There is more to power politics than just military might.

Tell that to the US

Ah, yes, 'cause replacing diplomacy with bellicose posturing from swaggering bullies like John Bolton and Dick Cheney has really increased the US's position in the world, hasn't it? Do you think foreign countries are scared of you?

They should be. Lord knows I'm scared of the U.S., and I'm an American!

Enkidu wrote:

ChakatBlackstar wrote:

Enkidu wrote:I thought we where talking about general political power, rather than just military. There is more to power politics than just military might.

Tell that to the US

Ah, yes, 'cause replacing diplomacy with bellicose posturing from swaggering bullies like John Bolton and Dick Cheney has really increased the US's position in the world, hasn't it? Do you think foreign countries are scared of you?

Only the ones we don't like should be afraid.

ChakatBlackstar wrote:

Enkidu wrote:

ChakatBlackstar wrote: Tell that to the US

Ah, yes, 'cause replacing diplomacy with bellicose posturing from swaggering bullies like John Bolton and Dick Cheney has really increased the US's position in the world, hasn't it? Do you think foreign countries are scared of you?

Only the ones we don't like should be afraid.

I was going to say something along the lines of, " Our friends have nothing to be afraid of." Our enemies should sure as hell re-evaluate their positions.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

ChakatBlackstar wrote:

Enkidu wrote: Ah, yes, 'cause replacing diplomacy with bellicose posturing from swaggering bullies like John Bolton and Dick Cheney has really increased the US's position in the world, hasn't it? Do you think foreign countries are scared of you?

Only the ones we don't like should be afraid.

I was going to say something along the lines of, " Our friends have nothing to be afraid of." Our enemies should sure as hell re-evaluate their positions.

That's part of the problem... our foreign policy under Bush has basically been "admit that you are wrong, because we aren't particularly inhibited about just hitting anyone we want, and we aren't going to talk to you until you already submit and agree to everything we demand." Trouble with that, especially with dictatorships, is that dictatorships are held in power by the appearance of strength. If your condition for diplomacy with someone is to basically admit being weak and admit defeat, and they are in a position where they utterly can't and won't do so, then you have no business saying you aim to achieve anything through diplomacy. Everything is going to have to be achieved through force, and it becomes a perpetuating cycle.