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Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Actually, this picture supports my point. The material is clearly burned, and we know from "The Enemy Withen" that phasers have a heat setting capable of warming a rock to the point of glowing red. This actually supports that these are phasers, not some sort of laser.

How the hell do you think lasers work? The point stands that that wall has been burned through - not burned across the entire surface.

Rochey wrote:

Actually, this picture supports my point. The material is clearly burned, and we know from "The Enemy Withen" that phasers have a heat setting capable of warming a rock to the point of glowing red. This actually supports that these are phasers, not some sort of laser

Hello? Did you not notice the point he made?

The effects of TOS phasers always propagated across the entire object affected - they would have taken out the entire window, not just burned a hole in it.

Adress that.

The phaser was set to heat and melted the wall. I thought I made that clear.

The point stands that that wall has been burned through - not burned across the entire surface

Why would it burn accross the entire surface? And I'm no expert but isn't that hole too big for a laser beam coming from that pistol to make?

Also where's the logic in them using lasers? Don't lasers only damage/injure their target? They had phase pistols in the 22nd century which could stun and kill their target. So why would they go from phase pistols to more primitive and less versitile laser pistols? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Why would it burn accross the entire surface? And I'm no expert but isn't that hole too big for a laser beam coming from that pistol to make?

Well, he did fire twice.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Why would it burn accross the entire surface?

Because that's what always happens with TOS-era phasers - the effect propagates across the entire object.

And I'm no expert but isn't that hole too big for a laser beam coming from that pistol to make?

The damage wouldn't just be limited to the area directly struck - it would be conducted through the material. The size of the hole would be related to how quickly it conducted, versus how quickly the beam burned through the material.

Also where's the logic in them using lasers? Don't lasers only damage/injure their target? They had phase pistols in the 22nd century which could stun and kill their target. So why would they go from phase pistols to more primitive and less versitile laser pistols? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The most likely answer would be power. Phasers, with their stun/heat/kill options are clearly related to phase pistols, but we didn't see phase pistols do anything like the damage see in the above screencap. Therefore they likely went to lasers for their better stopping power, until phase pistol-type weapons had caught up.

Captain Seafort wrote: The most likely answer would be power. Phasers, with their stun/heat/kill options are clearly related to phase pistols, but we didn't see phase pistols do anything like the damage see in the above screencap. Therefore they likely went to lasers for their better stopping power, until phase pistol-type weapons had caught up.

Why would they bring along stopping power on a mission to rescue the crew of a wrecked ship? And I'm saying these pistols are phasers, not phase pistols.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Why would they bring along stopping power on a mission to rescue the crew of a wrecked ship?

The E-nil had just come from a battle in the Rigel system. She was also carrying the heaviest ground weapon ever seen in Trek. This suggests that she was kitted out for combat, not exploration - in which case it would make sense that she would be carrying the heavier personal weapons.

And I'm saying these pistols are phasers, not phase pistols.

You, earlier wrote:They had phase pistols in the 22nd century which could stun and kill their target. So why would they go from phase pistols to more primitive and less versitile laser pistols?

Then why are they called lasers - a very specific term?

Captain Seafort wrote:

And I'm saying these pistols are phasers, not phase pistols.

You, earlier wrote:They had phase pistols in the 22nd century which could stun and kill their target. So why would they go from phase pistols to more primitive and less versitile laser pistols?

Then why are they called lasers - a very specific term?

They could be using it as a generic term for energy weapons. Like how some people say "car" for any number of 4-wheeled road legal vehicles(Vans, Trucks, ect.). Star Wars call their guns lasers, when they clearly aren't.

On a barely related side note, I hate it when people do the car thing. It's one of my pet peeves.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:They could be using it as a generic term for energy weapons. Like how some people say "car" for any number of 4-wheeled road legal vehicles(Vans, Trucks, ect.). Star Wars call their guns lasers, when they clearly aren't.

Then why do they then go back to calling the phasers? Are you suggesting that they started out using phase pistols (and calling them phase pistols, then suddenly started calling all their weapons lasers, and then started refering to them by the far more specific term "phaser". It's more likely that the pistols seen in The Cage and WNMHGB were lasers, which were later replaced by phasers (some of which bore a superficial resemblance to the earlier weapons).

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:They could be using it as a generic term for energy weapons. Like how some people say "car" for any number of 4-wheeled road legal vehicles(Vans, Trucks, ect.). Star Wars call their guns lasers, when they clearly aren't.

Then why do they then go back to calling the phasers?

Go back? What do you mean?

Are you suggesting that they started out using phase pistols (and calling them phase pistols, then suddenly started calling all their weapons lasers, and then started refering to them by the far more specific term "phaser".

No, I'm saying they had phase pistols. Then at some point they started using laser as a generic term for all energy weapons like phase pistols and phasers, and that at some point they developed phasers and over the years they started refering to weapons by more specific terms to avoid confusion with other weapons so someone doesn't get a phase pistol when they wanted a phaser.

t's more likely that the pistols seen in The Cage and WNMHGB were lasers, which were later replaced by phasers (some of which bore a superficial resemblance to the earlier weapons).

Now you're not making any sense. First you say the cage and What little girls are made of are different weapons, and now you're saying these pistols are the same?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Go back? What do you mean?

I don't supposed they plucked the term "phaser" out of thin air - it obviously refers to a particular type of weapon which, in your scenario, would have fallen under the catch-all term "laser.

No, I'm saying they had phase pistols. Then at some point they started using laser as a generic term for all energy weapons like phase pistols and phasers, and that at some point they developed phasers and over the years they started refering to weapons by more specific terms to avoid confusion with other weapons so someone doesn't get a phase pistol when they wanted a phaser.

Generic terms wouldn't be used in issue requests anyway - even if the term "laser" is a generalisation, if someone wanted to be issed with a specific type of weapon, they'd detail that weapon, rather than just say "I want a laser". It would be the equivelent of a soldier walking into an armoury today and saying "I want a gun".

In any event, the idea of them switching from using specific terms, to a general term unrelated to any of the weapons they're using, and then back to specific terms makes no sense whatsoever.

Now you're not making any sense. First you say the cage and What little girls are made of are different weapons, and now you're saying these pistols are the same?

Read what I wrote, then get back to me.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Thank you for supporting my point

Intentionally quote me out of context again, and use it to support the opposite of the actual entirety of what I wrote, and I'll be forced to take action.

The fact is, we still use the term "rifle" for any longarm whether it's rifled or not. This convention has persisted for centuries. Yet you claim that the convention for calling phasers by the term "lasers" would have changed in a few years. There is no vernacular reason to nickname a phaser a laser. The examples you gave don't hold either; "cell" is merely an abbreviated form of the word "cellular," and laptop v. notebook are designations for different styles. The more accurate analogy would be whether we still call either style a "computer."

Yes, people sometimes call an truck or SUV a "car;" but to be analagous to the laser/phaser colloquialism you propose, you'd have to find someone who calls trucks or SUV's "pineapples."

PS. You mentioned a question of how a laser pistol could do the damage indicated to the door in "The Cage." Even though you apparently never saw the episode, Seafort provided a picture showing the ARTILLERY PIECE that was used (and which was called specifically a "laser.")

The phaser was set to heat and melted the wall. I thought I made that clear.

Hello? What part of

The effects of TOS phasers always propagated across the entire object affected - they would have taken out the entire window, not just burned a hole in it.

do you not understand?

Phasers spread their effects out. Lasers don't. If this was, as you're claiming, a phaser then the entire window should have been melted, not just a hole in the middle of it.

Mikey wrote: laptop v. notebook are designations for different styles.

I think you're thinking of netbooks, which is a type of laptop. Nowadays it's quite common to call a laptop a notebook. It has nothing to do with style.

Yes, people sometimes call an truck or SUV a "car;" but to be analagous to the laser/phaser colloquialism you propose, you'd have to find someone who calls trucks or SUV's "pineapples."

That no where close. Pineapples are not in anyway related to SUVs. Phasers and Lasers are both forms of energy weapons.

PS. You mentioned a question of how a laser pistol could do the damage indicated to the door in "The Cage." Even though you apparently never saw the episode, Seafort provided a picture showing the ARTILLERY PIECE that was used (and which was called specifically a "laser.")

Actually I have seen the episode(and I'm surprised the series ever got off the ground in that day and age) and I would like to point out that the Artillery Piece actually was never called a laser on-screen, it is merely mentioned as channelling the ship's engine power into a blue beam(as opposed to the red beam used by the pistols in that episode).

The pistols in question also have a beam identical to phaser in TOS. This further supports my point that these pistols are phasers, not real lasers

Feel like answering my point, Blackstar?

Oh, and if I wanted to get nit-pickish, I could always point out that the laser beam is a lighter shade of red and opaque, while the phaser beams are darker and transparent.

Rochey wrote:Feel like answering my point, Blackstar?

The thing about it melting the whole wall? Well, simple, phasers wouldn't melt the whole wall, only the area around where the beam hit. We've seen this type of effect throughout Star Trek, where it only effects a small area as opposed to the entire thing.

Oh, and if I wanted to get nit-pickish, I could always point out that the laser beam is a lighter shade of red and opaque, while the phaser beams are darker and transparent.

Which can easily be attributed to the different lighting effects as the first picture was taken in natural lighting while the second two were taken in artificial lighting. Any photographer can tell you how important lighting can be in a photograph.