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How so?

They arrive here. A very large part of their former empire is dead. They have a mix of people and maybe a few of them know how to swing a hammer. They would have little industrial base or maybe even the man power to pull off rebuilding for a long time.

So you're saying that, as a culture, the Tholians would automatically lose societal knowledge merely for the fact of having had to travel? I don't buy it.

I'm saying they may lose the ability to apply it.

If we go with the theory that the ones that wound up in our galaxy were just lower dregs who had no knowledge of Tholian advanced technology or how to recreate it, then we have to assume the "better" Tholians went elsewhere, perhaps a more preferrable destination. The ones who wound up in the Milky Way were just taking whatever they could get and presumably we have to go with the "portal" sort of idea, since if they brought trans-galactic propulsion ships with them they would have used them or recreated them by now.

If it was just a random mix of people, then yeah, it's hard to believe none of them knew anything about the higher order Tholian technologies.

Fine. But how would that loss conceivably apply to every application of technology possible?

The only bit of advanced tech we know they have is the travel to get here. If that was a catapult like thing as we're assuming now since they dont have transwarp then it is only one thing they have lost. There is no reason to assume they were superadvanced in everything.

No but there is every reason to believe that the same level of technology was acheived in more than one area.

Teaos wrote:The only bit of advanced tech we know they have is the travel to get here. If that was a catapult like thing as we're assuming now since they dont have transwarp then it is only one thing they have lost. There is no reason to assume they were superadvanced in everything.

Well I can understand a society losing some of its capabilities during a mass exodus, because in real life history that has happened as well. If your population has to up and leave and the 90 year old traditional violin maker gets left behind, then yup, your society can no longer make violins exactly in the old traditional way anymore.

I think what makes it not make sense is that, by appearances, the Tholians held onto and were able to recreate, in a stable manner, a lot of technology. So it just makes you wonder how come they could recreate web technology, warp technology, etc. etc., but then all the things that made them a galactic power are forgotten or given up on.

Here's an idea: maybe the ones who are in our galaxy are like their equivelant of the Amish? They traveled out here centuries ago and set up their 'primitive' little government in the back end of nowhere. Because of their beliefs, they didn't bother advancing with the rest of the Tholian empire. When the rest of the Tholian empire fell, the remnants fled to a different galaxy, not this one, leaving our Tholian Amish to be the remnants of their race in this galaxy.

Some sort of splinter culture might explain the wierd cultural quirks such as punctuality. Maybe some type of cultural/religious/political offshoot of the main culture.

And who knows-- maybe the Tholian transgalactic technology is exactly what caused the crisis in their galaxy?

Rochey wrote:Here's an idea: maybe the ones who are in our galaxy are like their equivelant of the Amish? They traveled out here centuries ago and set up their 'primitive' little government in the back end of nowhere. Because of their beliefs, they didn't bother advancing with the rest of the Tholian empire. When the rest of the Tholian empire fell, the remnants fled to a different galaxy, not this one, leaving our Tholian Amish to be the remnants of their race in this galaxy.

The "Milky Way Deutsch" is a fine explanation, but for the fact that we're considering an already-posited history (from whatever game it's from) that doesn't include that fact.

I think there are plausable explanations for it even if they are a stretch. Compared to most of trek it isnt that hard to believe.

I think the over-arching issue is that this fictious history for whatever game this is doesn't make any sense of itself, from a canon-universe POV.

It could make sense. Well apart from ENT screwing up their arrival date.

That fact that this history could be forced, kicking and screaming, into some sort of semi-logical framework =/= "making sense."